Coming out of Beta...

[Mark L. Pederson]

Okay, half point against me for not thoroughly reading the thread before posting (boo Shawn!), but in my defense, Jim did say "we are now out"

Shawn -

One could argue semantics about what "beta" means - but in the technology industry - in my experience (and we beta for several major tech companies), it does NOT mean all features are enabled. It means what features are enabled are tested and stable. New features get enabled in FCP all the time. So, if you follow "industry standards" it is wrong to say Red is still in beta because they have not enabled a feature.

 

[Casey Green]

Looking forward to 14 and 15, but I happen to agree with Shawn about the Multiple outputs.

The out-of-beta should have EVF+LCD+HD-SDI. This is possible, is it not? We are planning on renting packages with this capability.

(perhaps this is in the new versions to come, but we are in the dark on that one).

 

[Karl H]

I added the rest of my accessories to my order yesterday and am waiting the final payment e-mail from Red. I have to say although I'm 'in', I'm still unsure whether this is a production model or not?

Reading the boards it concerns me that the camera boot time is over a minute. That some people are saying you can film no more than 20 mins before the fans stay on and the camera is too hot to touch; that there might be more physical changes to the body in the next 2 months pending user feedback, and that we might be waiting a long time before we have an editable codec on the PC. (Hopefully cineform can resolve some of these issues).

Im not saying Im out, I've been in since I placed my reservation in 2006 and Im not about to pull out. But I would like some assurance that these cameras are not going to be superceeded by new ones in a few months that leaves the early adopters needing to pay for upgrades.

If I hear 'no, we are shipping production worthy cameras and all the changes will be firmware only, at least for the forseeable future' then I'm in.

However, if you released a new model in April that had better heat distribution, a change in the hardware to reduce the boot time to 10 seconds, that had covers built in for all the connectors, then I'd still rather wait.

 

[TimPipher]

To make a cut and dried "Am I in or am I out" decision, wouldn't it be fair to be given a cut and dried list of what features will be enabled and which features won't?

 

[Andrew M.]

Okay, half point against me for not thoroughly reading the thread before posting (boo Shawn!), but in my defense, Jim did say "we are now out"

Jim said this "we are now out" in context of explaining to rgdfilmsRED his question of getting his delivery earlier since some people are waiting till RED is out of beta. So now we know when (build 15 in March) we will be out so some people will wait till then.

For me to upgrade the firmware from 13 to 15 is not a problem so I am not waiting.
If next batch of 250 cameras will not require any mechanical/PCB board changes then it is no brainer.
But it ain’t over till fat lady sings, so some people may wait for a bit.

Any fat lady that is ready to sing out there ?

 

[Obin Olson]

I am soooo in and I have paid in full weeks ago... Jim can you note this?
looking for that red number #610!!!!!

 

[Ed Watkins]

We are coming out of Beta into full production. Build 14 is the 1st step. Build 15 is the final step.

If you have a serial number up for delivery, it is time for you to decide if you are in or out. We will have no problem with your decision either way. But we will need to know. If you decide you are in (by Feb. 1) you have 30 days to make payment and accept delivery. We are really talking to serial #'s 1-500.

Build 14 should be released Feb. 1 and Build 15 by March 1st.

Jim

Just to clarify, this deadline only affects those people who have received emails (#1-500) and have not yet paid?

I assume that the next set of scheduled deliveries will also have 30 days to finalize their orders and pay, once they receive final production notices?

 

[Michael Hastings]

Reasonable expectations

Reasonable expectations

Shawn -

One could argue semantics about what "beta" means - but in the technology industry - in my experience (and we beta for several major tech companies), it does NOT mean all features are enabled. It means what features are enabled are tested and stable. New features get enabled in FCP all the time. So, if you follow "industry standards" it is wrong to say Red is still in beta because they have not enabled a feature.

True enough - everybody is fine with many of the very cool functions/features that are possible coming as future feature add-ons - but features that are standard functions on virtually all cameras shouldn't be looked at that way.

Looking forward to 14 and 15, but I happen to agree with Shawn about the Multiple outputs.

The out-of-beta should have EVF+LCD+HD-SDI. This is possible, is it not? We are planning on renting packages with this capability.

(perhaps this is in the new versions to come, but we are in the dark on that one).

I have my camera so no decision there, but in defense of what Shawn and others have said, IMHO it is reasonable to expect it to have stated functions and comparable functions to "normal" industry standard video cameras. i.e: one or the other of EVF or LCD, plus HD-SDI - we should be able to insist that it have an EVF and a working, genlockable HD-SDI output for live production or other monitoring.

*Plus the stated frame rates:
23.98, 24, 25, 29.97, 30 fps 4K
plus 50, 59.94, 60 fps 2K (windowed sensor)
Video Preview HD-SDI and HDMI
1280×720 progressive, 4:2:2

*Fully functioning audio.

*Readily available EVF and hard drives.
*Nikon "dumb" mount for those who reasonably relied on and anticipated this - it just shouldn't be that hard to do - even with the change in PL mount - as RED has known what the changes were for several months.
*Full cooperation with and support for Birger EOS mount, as it was a major PR announcement at NAB 2007 - on which many of us have relied.

*Some form of remote control - i.e. handheld ccu or at least a firm announcement and anticipated availability (not too long from now). This is a standard accessory with almost every professional/broadcast level camera and competing digital cine cameras - and someone should have been working on its development from day one, and since it basically is just a serial controller its development shouldn't have been affected by any of the imager, fan, circuit board, mount changes along the way.

With all that said, let me reiterate: I love this camera!!!

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

Welp....

Even when I was "a little upset" I had already sent RED all the money for the camera 3 weeks earlier.

I had concerns, but never doubted.

Personally I too would love the Nikon Mount and EVF... But I KNOW the Nikon mount is not close... So the EVF is fine, and I'll work out the lens situation.

Jay

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

important info

important info

Great news, Jim.

Since we should be in the next batch, I have a few questions.
Once our number is up and the money transfer is complete, how soon can the camera be shipped? I'm asking because we'll be abroad for most of March.

Also, there's a chance we could be in LA at the end of February so we would like to have it shipped to our friend and pick it up while we're there.
The tricky part is that we have to be in Europe by February 29th at the latest, so any info would be extremely helpful.

 

[Steven Caesare]

Seems to me some people are confusing beta test period for the camera hardware/firmware with accessory availability.

It's not uncommon for production accessory products to be back ordered, even at their introduction. That does not equate the "primary" item for which these accessories are intended being in beta, no?

 

[JVB]

I'm in...I'm just waiting for my final billing...

 

[Shawn Nelson]

Shawn -

One could argue semantics about what "beta" means - but in the technology industry - in my experience (and we beta for several major tech companies), it does NOT mean all features are enabled. It means what features are enabled are tested and stable. New features get enabled in FCP all the time. So, if you follow "industry standards" it is wrong to say Red is still in beta because they have not enabled a feature.

I agree that features can still come in post-Beta, but when this feature is a major feature promised since before shipping, then it still prerequisite.

I've been in the software/hardware high-tech industry for 7 years now, and Red is getting very close to being out of Beta. Hopefully, as Jim is forecasting, Builds 14 and 15 fix the remaining bugs and enable the last major features. Then I look forward to the post-Beta builds of 16->?.

Now after re-reading Jim's posts, it seems he is saying they won't be out of Beta until Build 15 on March 1st, with the "out of Beta now" being a general term referring to Q1.

 

[Luke Boyce]

If we're in this batch, and we've already committed and paid, when do the cameras ACTUALLY start shipping?

 

[Miodrag Popovic]

We are coming out of Beta into full production. Build 14 is the 1st step. Build 15 is the final step.

If you have a serial number up for delivery, it is time for you to decide if you are in or out. We will have no problem with your decision either way. But we will need to know. If you decide you are in (by Feb. 1) you have 30 days to make payment and accept delivery. We are really talking to serial #'s 1-500.

Build 14 should be released Feb. 1 and Build 15 by March 1st.

Jim

IIIIIIIIIIII aaaaaamm iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnn !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Michael Hastings]

EVF isn't an accessory...

EVF isn't an accessory...

Seems to me some people are confusing beta test period for the camera hardware/firmware with accessory availability.

It's not uncommon for production accessory products to be back ordered, even at their introduction. That does not equate the "primary" item for which these accessories are intended being in beta, no?

EVF isn't an accessory...

and a mount isn't really either if that is what you intended to use as your means of attaching the only lenses you have. The availability of a Nikon "dumb" mount - since it is basically a physical adaptation of a very, very, old, standard and common mount - is/was a reasonable assumption that they would have available immediately since it was announced almost from day one.

Again, I'm already in - paid for and received #206, and it does not affect me at all since I will use Birger Canon EOS smart mount or PL mount - but it's my 2 cents in support for those who planned on the Nikon mount.

 

[Miodrag Popovic]

If I am in, both parts have to be in, count on it :biggrin:

 

[Brent Carter]

Just to clarify, this deadline only affects those people who have received emails (#1-500) and have not yet paid?

I assume that the next set of scheduled deliveries will also have 30 days to finalize their orders and pay, once they receive final production notices?

To answer some general order questions....

When your camera delivery batch is close (about two weeks before we anticipate we will start shipping that batch), you will get an email from us with a bunch of info: what accessories you have on order, your contact info in our system, accessory recommendations, etc. Since many people placed their orders months ago, we know your contact info, etc. might have changed so we want to make sure your account is current. In that email, we will give you a window to call in/email in with changes as well as to go to RED.com and add accessories. As long as you use the same email address (ie, your login for RED.com orders), all of your orders will be lumped together under your master account. After that "add/drop/change" window ends, we will send you a second email with "here is your revised order and account information, we are ready for you to pay".

From the time you get that second email, you have (30) days to complete your purchase with RED (as Jim indicated in this thread).

As far as "how quickly will it ship after I pay?".... Our goal is to process orders in 3-5 business days. But, everyone also needs to have realistic expectations from the logistics side.

If we send out the 2nd email, we will get a wave of payments in. Which means we will get a wave of emails, calls, orders, pick/pack/ship requests, etc. Simple rule of thumb - within a batch, the quicker you pay, the quicker your order will be released for fulfillment processing.

Hope this clears some things up....

BC

 

[Ketch Rossi]

We are coming out of Beta into full production. Build 14 is the 1st step. Build 15 is the final step.

If you have a serial number up for delivery, it is time for you to decide if you are in or out. We will have no problem with your decision either way. But we will need to know. If you decide you are in (by Feb. 1) you have 30 days to make payment and accept delivery. We are really talking to serial #'s 1-500.

Build 14 should be released Feb. 1 and Build 15 by March 1st.

Jim

Jim,

I'm absolutely in, I have been from the very begin and talk any ones head off about RED, so I'll do what ever it takes to get my cameras.

I have received few e-mails about selling my RED as I'm having a bit of economical situation, but I'll take care of it, I absolutely want my cameras.

I just want you to know that I have not decided to postpone my delivery of #349 do to miss trust or non been happy were the REDs are at, but only because of finances.

I even put my beautiful house for sale, just so I can get my cameras as I care more about my REDs then my home ( my first one by the way, a true American dream ).

Any way 30 days seems more then fair and I'll do what ever it takes to meet the dead line.

Ciao,

KETCH ROSSI
www.KETCHFRAME.com

 

[Joel Kaye]

We are coming out of Beta into full production. Build 14 is the 1st step. Build 15 is the final step.

If you have a serial number up for delivery, it is time for you to decide if you are in or out. We will have no problem with your decision either way. But we will need to know. If you decide you are in (by Feb. 1) you have 30 days to make payment and accept delivery. We are really talking to serial #'s 1-500.

Build 14 should be released Feb. 1 and Build 15 by March 1st.

Jim

I'm definitely in, but I have been holding off for the Birger Lens mount and an EVF. If I got it right now I'd have a $20,000 paper weight... but I'm in for the ride.