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Coloring a Feature Film

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BrandonChristensen

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Hey guys,

Getting to the coloring stages of my first feature and am trying to figure out the best solution for the color workflow. Since we've got around 16TB of RAW RED data, it's not practical to get my colorist all of it to work from (he's in LA so I'd be shipping drives) and am curious what's the best way to handle a color workflow?

Our DP shot the film with a LUT he built in the Scarlet-W that is wonderful for 90% of the film. We'd only need polishing on it, matching blacks, etc. so I don't want to lose it.

Is there any way to render out the locked timeline and it maintains the R3D structure or am I pipe dreaming? Something like how you render OMF or AAF and it gives them everything used and none of the stuff you didn't, a solution like that for color where it's only the used R3D and none of the unused would be so great...

What we're discussing now is...

Send the colorist Pro Res 4444 or DPX files of it flattened but then we're wasting time rebuilding the LUT for the film.
Send the colorist Pro Res 4444 or DPX files of it with the LUT on, but then you lose some of the flexibility of the RAW if needed.

We have about 175 VFX shots that are all done in 4444 (in RedLog), so not the entire film is RAW at this point.

Anyway, first time dealing with a wealth of footage on something like this so I was hoping someone might have a good answer for me to consider before we decide.

Thanks!
BC
 
Interesting. I mean an XML will work just fine for this. You can media manage the sequence in premiere to copy used files to a new location (though I haven't done this before with R3Ds). Between those two it should be fine. What NLE are you working in?
 
Brendan, thanks for the reply.

Cutting it in Premiere Pro (not on 2017 though, we started cutting on the last version and I'm waiting to update).

So you can media manage the sequence in premiere and it retains the R3D format?
 
Don't know about Premiere and media managing R3D, but you can export xml and open in Davinci Resolve, and then trim the project which would make new R3D files, and would make your movie go from 16TB to something far more manageable. That way you would only have to send your colourist one drive. If your colourist is not grading in Resolve, you could export a new XML from Resolve after the trim...
 
Joan Poggio said:
Don't know about Premiere and media managing R3D, but you can export xml and open in Davinci Resolve, and then trim the project which would make new R3D files, and would make your movie go from 16TB to something far more manageable. That way you would only have to send your colourist one drive. If your colourist is not grading in Resolve, you could export a new XML from Resolve after the trim...
Click to expand...
Very intriguing.
And I can do that with the free version of Davinci Resolve?
 
in resolve go to file>mediaManagement and choose the trim option

you can also do this in premiere, go to file>projectManager and choose the consolidate option

and you may want to give it some handles
 
Yeah this is definitely a common practice, but I personally have not round-tripped R3D material this way before. I believe that Premiere would simply copy the full clip of each clip used (excluding media not used in the timeline) but perhaps they have an r3d trim feature.
 
paulherrin said:
in resolve go to file>mediaManagement and choose the trim option

you can also do this in premiere, go to file>projectManager and choose the trim option

and you may want to give it some handles
Click to expand...

Thanks Paul, and this will maintain it as a RED file? That's wild if so...
 
i'm not sure that premiere does but i think resolve will pump out an r3d trim although i can't remember, i'd test it out real quick and see what you get

it would be cool if redcine-x would take an edl/xml and export trims, i dunno maybe it does...
 
paulherrin said:
i'm not sure that premiere does but i think resolve will pump out an r3d trim although i can't remember, i'd test it out real quick and see what you get

it would be cool if redcine-x would take an edl/xml and export trims, i dunno maybe it does...
Click to expand...

Hm, yeah I wonder if it does...that would indeed be cool.
 
Brandon, if you don't mind, report back with your findings. I'm prepping for a feature shooting later this year and this will inevitably become relevant at some point in the process.
 
just tested it, resolve does pump out r3d trims

so you can edit wherever, bring your timeline into resolve, make the r3d trims, then someone elsewhere can color away with media managed

mischief managed, i mean... media
 
Crazy...going to test the Premiere version and see what happens. GREAT that Davinci works though.
 
Resolve has support for remote proxy editing (if that is what it is called) - not sure about licensing / cost.
ProRes 4444 may be similar size to sending r3d? I would say send less expensive drives and get best quality possible.
 
BrandonChristensen said:
Getting to the coloring stages of my first feature and am trying to figure out the best solution for the color workflow. Since we've got around 16TB of RAW RED data, it's not practical to get my colorist all of it to work from (he's in LA so I'd be shipping drives) and am curious what's the best way to handle a color workflow?
Click to expand...
My advice would be to let the colorist conform the project from the R3D files and then media-manage just the files used in the project. You'll find this is a fraction of the 16TB total. I haven't had much luck with trimming files, but I'd say 4-5TB (max) would be a reasonable amount, assuming a film roughly 100 minutes or so. It never hurts to have one additional crew member have a backup of the project, just in case of disaster.

Our DP shot the film with a LUT he built in the Scarlet-W that is wonderful for 90% of the film. We'd only need polishing on it, matching blacks, etc. so I don't want to lose it.
Click to expand...
You'd be surprised. Sometimes what you think works with a LUT may not be as optimum as the other options available with a decent colorist and good color-correction software. I generally ask the client to send along a "reference" version of the project as a QuickTime LT file with burned-in timecode (preferably also with source file names and source TC as well), and I use this both as a visual reference and as a conform reference. At least that way, if we veer sharply away from what you've been seeing in the edit process, we'll know about it and can discuss the pros and cons of an alternate approach.
 
Brandon,
Just make sure to thoroughly check your edit vs an offline reference video after you bring the XML into Resolve and prep it for Media Management.
I have received R3D trimmed projects from clients before where they did not check the conform before trimming and some clips did not get delivered or the wrong clips were trimmed or the wrong TC in/out points were sent for clips, etc...
 
Marc Wielage said:
My advice would be to let the colorist conform the project from the R3D files and then media-manage just the files used in the project. You'll find this is a fraction of the 16TB total. I haven't had much luck with trimming files, but I'd say 4-5TB (max) would be a reasonable amount, assuming a film roughly 100 minutes or so. It never hurts to have one additional crew member have a backup of the project, just in case of disaster.
Click to expand...

Is that the same as what paulherrin said above? That's the current plan - though since he's in LA, sharing my RAID with him is more difficult. If I can media-manage we'll be set.
 
Paul Sage said:
I have received R3D trimmed projects from clients before where they did not check the conform before trimming and some clips did not get delivered or the wrong clips were trimmed or the wrong TC in/out points were sent for clips, etc...
Click to expand...
That's essentially what happens when I try to Media Manage and trim R3D files within Resolve. To me, it isn't worth the risk: I just take the whole clip as-is.

BrandonChristensen said:
Is that the same as what paulherrin said above? That's the current plan - though since he's in LA, sharing my RAID with him is more difficult. If I can media-manage we'll be set.
Click to expand...
You asked my opinion, and I told you that for me, trimming does not work, partly because of how clips are split. (This is also a problem for Canon and Sony projects that have files that hit the 2GB file limit.) It's not a big deal and I've conformed at least 19 or 20 films and just left the original clips intact. My last project had 21TB of Raw footage, and we wound up with 6TB in the finished film, which to me is totally manageable. A fast 6TB drive is under $500, which to me is dirt cheap.

It never hurts to actually hire a post supervisor who actually has experience with decisions like this. I have seen several projects that came off the rails pretty badly due to bad choices made early on in the project (particularly with sound).
 
i would recommend going through and watching to make sure all your clips are spot on, worst case scenario do your own trims on problem clips via redcine-x and bring those files in individually
 
Cut a full feature in Premiere and round-tripped to Resolve a few times.

I used proxies rendered from RCX instead.

It was easier to lug that around.

Keep the naming the same of course.

In Resolve, just point to the Master (R3D) files and it should connect during Import XML.

Just check off Automatically Imports Source Clips.

As far as trimming, I dont ever touch any of the originals.
 
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