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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Colorgrading - Monitor Recommendation

8bit+FRC?

If the NEC is 8-bit, does true 10 bit panels even exist?

Where did you get your research from, may you post a link to some documentation?

 
Rolling in the bit depth

Rolling in the bit depth

For years the dirty little secret of most of the upmarket panels is that they are dependent on a short list of suppliers for the glass substrates who are targeting the 99% of the marketplace that is only interested in 8 bit display precision. The result is a big kludge-fest.

Achieving a 10 bit or better pipeline from source to display requires attention to the entire signal chain, including careful parsing of manufacturers claims. Also be aware that most implementations of DVI and HDMI are limited to 8 bits even if the devices they are connecting are capable of more.

Cheers - #19
 
Jon MIchael Puntervold said:
8bit+FRC?

If the NEC is 8-bit, does true 10 bit panels even exist?

Where did you get your research from, may you post a link to some documentation?
Click to expand...

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/panelsearch.htm

The NEC uses an LG Display LM240WU4-SLB1, which according to...
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/monitor_panel_parts.htm

... is 8-bit+A-FRC.

Notably, the old HP Dreamcolor uses a true 10-bit display so I picked one up yesterday.

It's crazy how you essentially have to be a private detective to find this stuff out.
 
so is it official osx is only 8 bit and even if i bought a flanders for my mac i'd still need an hdlink or some sort of in between to actually send it a 10 bit signal? cuz i am interested in kitting out a color accurate dit kit and just wanted to figure out my total costs of purchase. thanks
 
Jonas Klittmark said:
Notably, the old HP Dreamcolor uses a true 10-bit display so I picked one up yesterday.

It's crazy how you essentially have to be a private detective to find this stuff out.
Click to expand...

Jonas - your detective work might just be getting started now that you have a Dreamcolor. love mine, but MAN - the hoops it made me jump thru to use it with my Mac/BMD card were byzantine! Love it, esp the price point, but....

Stu Aull
SX199
Alaska
 
stu aull said:
Jonas - your detective work might just be getting started now that you have a Dreamcolor. love mine, but MAN - the hoops it made me jump thru to use it with my Mac/BMD card were byzantine! Love it, esp the price point, but....

Stu Aull
SX199
Alaska
Click to expand...

Yep, I consider myself duly warned. But for $700 it's just too interesting to pass on. Might end up being my GUI monitor if nothing else...
 
Brian Merlen said:
so is it official osx is only 8 bit and even if i bought a flanders for my mac i'd still need an hdlink or some sort of in between to actually send it a 10 bit signal? cuz i am interested in kitting out a color accurate dit kit and just wanted to figure out my total costs of purchase. thanks
Click to expand...

Not just to get 10 bit but also to get accurate refresh rates on your monitor. A monitor connected directly to your computer will most likely not sync to the video signal as it doesn't know what kind of footage it is - 24, 25, 29.97, etc. So you get the occasional stutter, double frames, frame tearing when for instance viewing a slow pan. Good luck trying to find out then if the problem is your computer or the footage.

An HDlink is not what you need as it only converts a signal, you need a internal video card like a Decklink or an external box like an Intensity - assuming you are going the BlackMagic way, which is advised if you want to use it with DaVinci. If you have a computer with Thunderbolt then even a UltraStudio Mini Monitor ($145,-) might work.
 
So can anybody write a walkthrough for a HP Dreamcolor connected to a PC and / or MAC. What do i need to make this happen! What cable is the best to get the "best" results... ect.
 
Last edited:
Does anyone else with the PA241W feel its too contrasty or over saturated?

It's a great monitor, but I jut feel its too saturated. (and the saturation adjust is grayed out on my monitor)
 
Matthew Conrad said:
Does anyone else with the PA241W feel its too contrasty or over saturated?

It's a great monitor, but I jut feel its too saturated. (and the saturation adjust is grayed out on my monitor)
Click to expand...

From the website this is a wide gamut monitor, capable of displaying nearly all of AdobeRGB.

What you have to know is that, unlike with still images, videos do not have a color profile embedded. With an image you can for instance have an sRGB profile embedded and when you display that with certain programs (Photoshop, Safari, etc) on a computer screen it will correct the display of that image in the context of your monitor. So if the red channel has a value of 256 in 8 bit, on a wider gamut monitor it will have to display with a value less then 256, let's say 190.

With video this is not the case. A red value of 256 (8 bit) in your video will be displayed with full saturation on your monitor, regardless of the calibration of that monitor. So if your monitor can display a more saturated red then it will do so. This is the reason why for video production your monitor will have to be calibrated in rec709 as that is the only HD video color standard around at the moment. If you go out to film or DCP then there are others but that is a different story.

So, while you don't give any details about the calibration of you monitor, if you think the colors are over saturated then they probably are.
 
DreamColor owners and future-owners,
i suggest you read the findings of Allan Tepper here:
http://provideocoalition.com/ateppe...c_connectivity_amp_functionality_update_2012a
I also suggest you guys read the Related DreamColor articles (links on the bottom of that page).

By the way, I would also like to suggest a monitor from Dell: The 27" UltraSharp U2711.
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...noteSearch&baynote_bnrank=13&baynote_irrank=0
2560x1440, 10bit (not sure if true 10bit or 8bit+FRC), 96% coverage of AdobeRGB.
Specs look good and AnandTech confirmed it's a really good monitor.
I haven't actually used one, so can't say anything concrete.
 
I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a 10 bit monitor and am really on the fence about the sony 17" OLED. I hear many stories of some people getting great monitors and a hand full of others not.

at $4k I'd like to get something I can rely on.

I've also been looking at the Flanders 10 bit 17" monitor, it's a few hundred bucks cheaper and offers a bit more on the scopes side of things.

Anyone have a comparison between the two?
 
In our office we use a Dreamcolor as a GUI, Cine-Tal as our 10bit reference, Panasonic VT25 plasma and a JVC RS60u projector with a 147" Stewart Screen. I really love the Cine-Tal as a reference monitor. Even though they are hard to get a hold of now because Ikan owns them and discontinued them they hold calibration longer than any other monitor in its class and are beautiful. We also own a new Sony 25" OLED and that monitor is also beautiful with extraordinary blacks. We just recently purchased another non-working Cine-Tal that we just got serviced at IKAN which is being used on one of our cart systems. Any/all of these monitors are fantastic for set and color suites.
At my house I use a Dell 27" U2711 and a JVC HD950 projector with a DC1 panamorph anamorphic lens on a 103" curved 2.39 DaLite screen running Resolve and have them all calibrated to Rec709 gamma 2.2.
 
I think the Ultrasharp is very interesting. On paper its better than the Dreamcolor. Am I right?
 
mikeburton said:
In our office we use a Dreamcolor as a GUI, Cine-Tal as our 10bit reference, Panasonic VT25 plasma and a JVC RS60u projector with a 147" Stewart Screen. I really love the Cine-Tal as a reference monitor. Even though they are hard to get a hold of now because Ikan owns them and discontinued them they hold calibration longer than any other monitor in its class and are beautiful. We also own a new Sony 25" OLED and that monitor is also beautiful with extraordinary blacks. We just recently purchased another non-working Cine-Tal that we just got serviced at IKAN which is being used on one of our cart systems. Any/all of these monitors are fantastic for set and color suites.
At my house I use a Dell 27" U2711 and a JVC HD950 projector with a DC1 panamorph anamorphic lens on a 103" curved 2.39 DaLite screen running Resolve and have them all calibrated to Rec709 gamma 2.2.
Click to expand...
Mike - Do you have any issues with grading on a wide gamut monitor - where the end result is over-saturated. Or, is that a non-issue as you're calibrating to Rec709?

One user on an Eyeon Fusion forum uses the U2711 also, and finds a wide-gamut color space can be used to detect problems by separating the colors. He uses a 2nd monitor of some kind 'dumbed down' to sRGB.

You mentioned using gamma 2.2 with Rec709.

I'm a bit confused on the proper gamma, and from reading this thread in avsforum with seemingly very knowledgeable posters going into the math in detail, there are bifurcated opinions on the subject.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1008297/2-5-is-display-gamma-not-2-2/60

What are your thoughts on pro/con of grading at 2.2?

BTW - I'm considering buying the U2711's new big brother, the U2713H with GB-LED, 14-bit programmable LUT (has a comparison against the U2711 at the bottom of this review http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2713h.htm )

I've never owned a wide-gamut monitor before, and am trying to learn enough to anticipate any problems (so if you have any useful links or thoughts, I'd appreciate them).

I'll be grading videos for web, Blu-ray, and hopefully TV - and need to come up with a workflow. Possibly use several monitors with different color spaces?
 
According to the review you would need a hardware calibration with the monitor. You should be good to go. All the monitor received low points upon was illummination uniformity. But color and accuracy were great. I think for the price this is a very good starting point, before one moves to a professional monitor. This could always serve as an eccelent gui monitor if indeed you replace it with a better color critical monitor. My 2c
 
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