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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Color vs Colorista for final 2k 10bit CC/grade?

Shawn Nelson

Shawn Nelson

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I'd really like some opinions on the final step in the FCP->Crimson->RedCine process, final grading. How do people feel about AE+Colorista vs using Apple Color? I thought that Color wasn't good but now I'm reading more posts by people successfully using it. I though Evin was one of them. Evin, what do you think about Color vs Colorista? Anyone else? Informed thoughts and experiences greatly appreciated.

FWIW, I now own both AE CS3 and Apple Color, so cost is not an issue between these two workflows.
 
How long is the piece? Intended audience? Etc.

We did the Ringo music video using FCP + AE + Automatic Duck + Magic Bullet but it was short form. I wouldn't want to do that on a feature, or something that was likely to undergo many client revisions. Colorista isn't absolutely needed IMHO if you know your way around hue/sat and curves, although it is cool.

Also, things might change after NAB - Color might continue to suck less.

For something long-form or where you're likely to be changing edits and want to conform, etc, you're going to want to go beyond AE and Color is the only cheap thing on the horizon now (except for Color Finesse?), so might as well learn it, I guess. BTW, to really fly, you want hardware controls. But you might want to figure out if you're a colorist first before putting the cash down on that.

Never underestimate the value of a few hours in a DaVinci of course! Also, don't be afraid to go into AE and do matte paintings to help your shots out.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Shawn Nelson said:
FWIW, I now own both AE CS3 and Apple Color, so cost is not an issue between these two workflows.
Click to expand...

I own 'em both too. I like Colorista, but I like Color a lot better as a color grading tool. Yes, you can do it all in After Effects, but Color is built for grading and it's actually really good once you figure it out. Secondaries, grades and looks are so easy to build and tweak. Plus you've got some OK scopes right there. I think most of the criticism of Color came from the fact that the round trip didn't work for a long time. Version 1.02 seems to have fixed that.

I've only round tripped shorter sequences in Color, but frankly that's how I'd probably do it for a feature anyhow. Bring over 15 minute sequences and send them back to FCP rendered and then assemble those. Why? Just to reduce possible huge render problems. Maybe there wouldn't be any... but I'd hate to get that far in and try to debug something that wasn't working. It's a tiny bit more work to use smaller sequences.

If you don't have The DV Rebel's Guide book and you want to pursue After Effects get it. Stu details an entire workflow for color correction using AE and even includes some cool tools on the disk. AE has infinite masking tools and you could plug in Magic Bullet Looks too.
 
Videodisc said:
Just wondering how slow Magic Bullet + AE works with 4k or 3k Red files.
It takes awhile, even with DVcam. Is it practical?
Click to expand...

We didn't work with 4k or 3k files - we transcoded straight to 4:2:2 1920x1080 ProRes using QuickTime and then cut and graded the ProRes files.

Delivery was just SD, so we didn't mind not doing a proper deBayer, etc.

This was done before the current tools existed (no RedCine, no editing native files in FCP, etc), so I might do it differently now, but I stand by my assertion that 1080p is FINE.

Funnily enough though our 1080p master turned out to look fine too. Even with 30% scale ups, etc. I think Red shows parts of it on their current showreel.

My personal opinion is that anything beyond 4:2:2 1080p is TOTAL OVERKILL for indies doing low-budget stuff (that includes Ringo Starr). If someone sees your 1080p version and likes it, great, let them pay for a 4K finish or whatever. 1080p or even 720p is fine to prove your talent and get your project noticed. If nobody's interested in your project then it's because it sucks or you're unlucky, not because you didn't do the finish at some stupendous high resolution.

Red is a great camera. If you find that you HAVE to use 2k 10 bit dpx files to make your footage look good, then you're doing something wrong IMHO. Probably expecting more latitude from it than it can do. The trick is to crush the blacks quite a bit because they are noisy by default - and bear this in mind when you're shooting - eg limit all detail in your scene to around a 6-7 stop range and then expose to keep the highlights.

Anyway, just my 2c.

For that matter, I'm breaking my own rules and experimenting with 2880x1620 at the moment for stuff that requires a heavy pan / scan. But that's for stuff that I know will be viewed by pixel peepers (eg RedUsers and other broadcast folk ;)...

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Sawn, I like both apps very much but Colorista is only really viable if you have just a few secondaries and don't need to do a full CC pass. You can achieve a great first light look in Redcine and just do secondaries in Colorista if you're on a deadline but Color is quite a bit more comprehensive and feature complete for a real finish.

Check out this piece I shot on the HVX and finished in Color.
http://www.evingrant.com/EvinGrant/Coke.html
 
Shawn, I've done a lot of grading for commercials in After Effects and set of tools/plugins you'll find there is incredible, yet there is one huge drawback from using it to grade - speed.
You may find your self spending hours on one shot with moving masks or tracking... eventually it'll kill your enthusiasm and creative eye for the sake of just getting it done.
Color has a comprehensive set of tools to get things done, and be able to enjoy the process.

Cheers
Albert
 
Until you find that Color spiked your blacks that only someone with analog wavforms can tell.... Be careful guys and make sure you know your video and what that soft clip function actually does.
 
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