Color trouble in Red Alert

[Ryan S]

Hello Red Users,

This is my first time working with Red footage- I'm not a professional editor by any means, just a self-taught enthusiast. To date, all of my work has been with DV and HDV from Sony camcorders, so this is all pretty exciting.

While I have not mastered Red Alert, I am at least managing to export my footage as I want, save for a color discrepancy that I do not understand. If I render a 4K or 2K TIFF, the color/saturation/contrast are all as they appear in Red Alert. If I export a Quicktime movie, using Apple ProRes 422(HQ) and Full Quality Debayer, the footage comes slightly desaturated and lower contrast. I tried exporting with H.264 and uncompressed 10bit, and had the same results.

Having searched through these forums, I haven't been able to find anyone with similar issues, leading me to believe I've missed something simple. Does anyone here have any thoughts? I have attached two screenshots- one of the TIFF and one of the ProRes Quicktime movie.

Thanks!

 

[Mike Budde]

I've run into the same problem. I think it's because the Quicktime ProRes is a compressed video format using 4:2:2 color space...and the tif/dpx files are 10-bit 4:4:4.

However, what's puzzling to me is that i don't get the same desaturated / low contrast look when i render a Quicktime ProRes from an FCP timeline using the Red Quicktime Proxy files. Why wouldn't it be the same?...more importantly, why would the color/contrast of Red Alert's ProRes render look less true than the color/contrast of the FCP ProRes render?

 

[Mike Budde]

Did you generate those images from Quicktime Player??

If so, go to your Quicktime Player General Preferences. There is a checkbox to "Enable Final Cut Studio color compatibility"...which changes the gamma display. This might be what you're lookin for.

 

[Ryan S]

However, what's puzzling to me is that i don't get the same desaturated / low contrast look when i render a Quicktime ProRes from an FCP timeline using the Red Quicktime Proxy files. Why wouldn't it be the same?...more importantly, why would the color/contrast of Red Alert's ProRes render look less true than the color/contrast of the FCP ProRes render?

You read my mind. That's exactly what I'm dealing with now.

Did you generate those images from Quicktime Player??

The less saturated one is quicktime, the other is RedAlert.

I tried changing that setting, and it made my ProRes exports from Final Cut look more like the quicktime reference files. However, I'm still searching for a way to preserve the color information from RedAlert....

Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[JD Marlow]

From RED's FAQ:

http://www.red.com/faq/i-am-noticing-a-gamma-shift-in-my-quicktime-movies-why-is-that/

"There is a setting in the Preferences dialogue in Quicktime Player that allows you to avoid the Apple Gamma Correction, which convert all Gamma space to 1.8. By selecting (or sometimes deselecting) this option you can disable this function, there by allowing the correct 2.2 Gamma to be displayed on your monitor."

 

[Ryan S]

Thank you JD, I have enabled the setting.

I believe my ultimate solution will be a better understanding of gamma and color space, as I am now experiencing 5 different results between Red Alert, Reference movies in Quicktime, Reference movies in Final Cut's Viewer, Reference movies in Final cut's Canvas, and anything exported from final cut.

Thanks to those who replied for your help!

 

[Mike Budde]

It could also be the gamma settings of your monitor.

Or the answer is all of the above...mixed with the chance that all of these programs export video in a slightly different way.

 

[KevinStanley]

This is a mystery not easily solved. The "enable fcp color compatibility" in QT player only effects self contained movies, thus it won't work for the proxy files as they are not self contained. To further complicate things Apple decides for you that everything should be in 1.8 gamma and there isn't really a way to change that for the reference files (proxies) so you generally don't see anything close to what will actually be rendered. I think it's best to do render tests for the workflow you plan on using and check your finished material on a good HD monitor. Especially if you are using RedSpace in-camera and QT reference files for offline.

my 2 cents.