Color Control Surfaces?

[Shawn Nelson]

So I know about the JLCooper Spectrum, and the CP200 by that other company, but over $3000 for what is basically a glorified three trackballs...give me a break!

Okay, it made sense up until last year, when the amount of people owning color finishing tools was relatively small. But now that tons of people own Color or are otherwise learning about CC (Colorista, etc.), why can't someone break this market wide open and sell one for under a $1000? It's three quality trackballs and some buttons on a USB circuit for crying out loud!

I'm really hoping to see this at NAB. Does anyone know of any?

 

[M Most]

So I know about the JLCooper Spectrum, and the CP200 by that other company, but over $3000 for what is basically a glorified three trackballs...give me a break!

Okay, it made sense up until last year, when the amount of people owning color finishing tools was relatively small. But now that tons of people own Color or are otherwise learning about CC (Colorista, etc.), why can't someone break this market wide open and sell one for under a $1000? It's three quality trackballs and some buttons on a USB circuit for crying out loud!

I'm really hoping to see this at NAB. Does anyone know of any?

Just because Apple chose to give away software doesn't mean that other companies should be giving away hardware. You get what you pay for, especially when mechanical devices are involved. Apple and others can partially justify their decisions based on the fact that software duplication and distribution is very cheap (although support is not, which is why one of the biggest complaints among Apple users is lack of direct support). But with precision mechanical devices, each one carries a manufacturing cost, and if the quality is to be maintained, a certain amount of product rejection as well. If you want a throwaway device that can be made cheap, then buy some trackballs and make it yourself. And, BTW, good luck with that. But if you want something that does the job properly, feels right in your fingers, has proper, smooth, and accurate tactile response, and is supported by the manufacturer - well, you're going to have to pay for that. If you can't afford it, it's not the manufacturer's responsibility to make sure that you can. Nobody is forcing you to use a hardware control system with Color, anyway.

 

[Shawn Nelson]

I'm CS by degree, so I understand the concept of precision devices.

Most trackballs can be had for $20-$40. Is The JLCooper's balls better? Sure.

But take for instance a $120 trackball with buttons, such as this,
http://www.restockit.com/Expert-Mou...g-SilverBlack--(KMW64325).html?source=froogle

You can gang three of those together for under $500. I think someone can do that, but in a new housing so it looks good, and get it to market for $1000.

To say that paying a $1000 for what is effectively three well-made track balls is 'giving away hardware' is just nuts.

 

[Shawn Booth]

Shawn -
I think maybe more research into what the controllers actually are is needed for you. Do you know any colorists? I mean someone trained on a DaVinci or other high end system. Talk to them. Or call Nathan at The DR Group in LA about their colorist/ color theatre.

Think about the total ease and speed afforded to one's color correction workflow that the Tangent/JLCooper controllers give the colorist.

I agree the controllers are expensive, but you're (we) are in an expensive game here.

 

[jimhare]

Fair enough, but Shawn makes a good point.

There is a scale of economy that should come into play when your market grows exponentially.

If you suddenly have 20,000 users instead of 500, you would think the cost would drop, particularly on established products that have already recouped R&D.

It's not about giving it away, it's about a fair price in the market. I'm happy to pay for quality, but I expect fair value.

I paid over $100k for a Sonic Solutions DVD authoring system 8 years ago and it was great value as I was only one of about 100 in the world. Now they come as prizes in cereal boxes because the market is saturated with them.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

Tangent blows the JLCooper away. Well worth the few extra dollars.

For the record Shawn - someone is working on THIS for Color (actually the whole Final Cut Studio Suite) - but you didn't hear that from me -

http://www.prorec.com/articles/tabid/109/entryid/280/default.aspx

 

[Shawn Nelson]

Shawn -
I think maybe more research into what the controllers actually are is needed for you. Do you know any colorists? I mean someone trained on a DaVinci or other high end system. Talk to them. Or call Nathan at The DR Group in LA about their colorist/ color theatre.

Think about the total ease and speed afforded to one's color correction workflow that the Tangent/JLCooper controllers give the colorist.

I agree the controllers are expensive, but you're (we) are in an expensive game here.

Uh...not sure what you're trying to say here. Do I personally know a colorist? Regrettably no. I agree that the hardware controllers are useful/necessary. That's why I want one. But as a CS guy, I can look at the physical controller and go "shoot, that's three well-made track balls, a couple of physical knobs on a USB, for $3000+?".

My point has everything to do with noting being on the ass-side of the supply-demand curve and hoping someone fixes this. I very much see the need for them, I dont' need to know a colorist for that. In fact, my first post was because I already see how necessary they are.

 

[Shawn Booth]

Shawn - I just meant talk to a colorist, they could tell you there's more to it than 3 trackballs put together. I understood what you were saying - wasn't trying to do anything more than communicate. For lack of better phrasing - the control panels are a more intensive interface than just building linked balls together. I hear your frustration though, I'm right there with you and can't afford to build a CC suite.

But as Mark said, it's being developed. Until Color was released, color correction on this level was reserved for the high end post houses. We have to wait for vendors to catch up unfortunately.

But once you use the control panels, a mouse is hell. It's like using a computer w/o a mouse and then one day someone gives you a mouse.

BTW - What does a CS guy mean?

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Tangent blows the JLCooper away. Well worth the few extra dollars.

For the record Shawn - someone is working on THIS for Color (actually the whole Final Cut Studio Suite) - but you didn't hear that from me -

http://www.prorec.com/articles/tabid/109/entryid/280/default.aspx

Yeah you mentioned this tiny thing...

back to topic:

And things are expensive because of the quantity.
If Mercedes would sell 100 E-Klassen a year they would cost 250 000 USD.
But they are selling way more, hence it is cheaper to produce.

I mean think about what you can buy for 3000 USD in technical businesses that are not filmrelated....film costs the little extra

 

[Shawn Nelson]

Shawn - I just meant talk to a colorist, they could tell you there's more to it than 3 trackballs put together.

Really, then what else is it? I don't mean to be coy or stupid, but looking at one...what else is it than three movable balls and a few extra knobs/buttons?

BTW - What does a CS guy mean?

Means I have a degree in Computer Science.

 

[Thomas Mathai]

$3k today, $1k tomorrow, the costs will always go down.

I see the Dexter as a peak into the future, why have physical trackballs when you can use multi-touch monitor panels that can be reconfigured by software.

Wacom's new 12" Cintiq is a nice start, it's about $1k, but not multi-touch... yet.