Color- color science

[Frank Cueto]

There is a build of BaseLight which uses the new colour science, but I believe the current release version has reverted to the old SDK, as some people were unhappy about having to adjust grades half way through a project. But happily BaseLight lets multiple versions of the software co-exist on a system, and you can run an older version if you need to.

We went thru that, and it DID change EVERYTHING, but the improvement was soo noticeable that we decided to bite the bullet and move forward. It has indeed paid dividends... We recently creened our film out, and although our LUT wasn't spot on as far as contrast, we did have an incredibly noise free image, even on Fuji print stock. Now I am avoiding upgrading our suite to the latest build cause we don't want to loose our Color Science!

 

[Eric Haase]

It's been awhile since i checked up on this issue; has the color science within color been fixed yet, as in what you see in rocketcine or redalert is what you'll see in color or is there still some shifting going on?

if so has anyone figured out a workaround or offset formula?
Thanks,
~T

I think Apple needs to implement the new color science. Not holding my breath. Until then I recommend retranscoding the final sequence to DPX with Monkey Extract and bringing this into color. If you bake in the basic white balance and tint (with NO curve and in REC709) you will get a nice low con DPX. You will have the new color science and will be able to pull secondaries in Color much better than looking at the original R3D files, especially under tungsten lighting.

 

[Steve MacMillan]

I think there is a strong argument for releasing the SDK and FCS plug-ins necessary with the official release of the camera build.

Steve

 

[David Battistella]

I think there is a strong argument for releasing the SDK and FCS plug-ins necessary with the official release of the camera build.

Steve

Agreed, but I am guessing that RED's point of view would be this:

We provide the new Color Science but we can not be responsible for every company to implement it.

I agree with you, but it seems that Apple's priority is to let people know that they can use "some version" but not the latest version of RED's color science.

We can not expect all these other companies to keep up with RED's development, but it would be nice if new releases were actually usable in major software applications, especially software like FCS 3 which is a very widely used application worldwide.

Why should RED be keeping tabs on APPLE?

It's a bit of buck passing on all fronts but I think RED and APPLE have a pretty good relationship.

It would take a lot od users to make a request to Apple to implement the new science, but with them on a new version of QT in SNOW leopard it could be MONTHS before we see an update.

David

 

[Ben Brainerd]

I think a lot of the confusion (at least in my case) stems from the fact that RED distributes the plugins and quicktime components. Knowing that, and knowing the little I do about how quicktime operates under the hood, I would say it's theoretically possible that implementing the new color science in quicktime could be done by RED without Apple.

I'm not sure how that would translate to a new Color plugin, though. Considering how non-DPX workflows are hacked into Color, it's totally possible that we are, in fact, waiting on Apple for that part. And given how Apple is with new features (Was it really necessary to do a paid upgrade for 4K support) I'm guessing we've got a LONG wait coming. Like FCS4/Color 2.0 long. Which is upsetting, even if it is somewhat expected.

 

[Eric Haase]

I know Ted has specifically commented about 3rd party software not being as aggressively updated as RED's development. (redcenter podcast). Seems like it's in Apple's hands.

The author of Clipfinder could probably shed some light on how this works. I recall when the new Color Science came out he pushed out an update for his app that used the new science. The old version did not just automatically work because a new RED QT codec was installed.

 

[CJ Roy]

I think programs that take advantage of Redline (Clipfinder, Monkey Extract, Red Alert, Red Rushes) were able to take advantage of the new color science with relative ease.

Apple's insistence of QT wrapped R3D's is probably the main culprit here. Hopefully they'll abandon their unique workflow and start playing nice with others. But it is Apple, after all.

 

[Martin Tlaskal]

We went thru that, and it DID change EVERYTHING, but the improvement was soo noticeable that we decided to bite the bullet and move forward. It has indeed paid dividends... We recently creened our film out, and although our LUT wasn't spot on as far as contrast, we did have an incredibly noise free image, even on Fuji print stock. Now I am avoiding upgrading our suite to the latest build cause we don't want to loose our Color Science!

Just to clarify the situation for Baselight users (everyone else would be advised to move on for boredom reasons):
- We updated Baselight to the new colour science in 4.1.3711.
- We updated to a new version of the SDK in 4.1.3791, but reverted back to the SDK version used in 4.1.3711 for version 4.1.3810 as there were rendering issues.
- All subsequent versions of Baselight use the same SDK version.

So, if you're on a recent Baselight build, you are using the new colour science.

-Martin

 

[Steve MacMillan]

Apple's insistence of QT wrapped R3D's is probably the main culprit here. Hopefully they'll abandon their unique workflow and start playing nice with others. But it is Apple, after all.

I was under the impression that Apple had almost nothing to do with it, aside from whatever hoops are required to write a codec plug-in that works with FCS. RED's understandable desire to protect their compression format means that they write the code. I'm a little surprised that RED has fallen behind on supporting FCS, when it is so important to the advancement of the format.

STeve

 

[CJ Roy]

Steve- I really don't know, we're just speculating at this point till RED says otherwise.

 

[zak tucker]

so in the end, what is the latest build of RED that is compatible with current color science in Color 1.5?

 

[Uli Plank]

17.

 

[Ben Brainerd]

so in the end, what is the latest build of RED that is compatible with current color science in Color 1.5?

Color 1.5/RED Plugin 2.9b is "compatible" with anything up to build 20. But Uli's right, 17 is the last build where your Camera Color will match your Post Color. (Well, 18 didn't have the new CS, but I don't think anyone ever used it. )

 

[Nook Kim]

Note to self: Gotta save up for Speedgrade.