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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

College Dropout

I think you are right to question the value of what you are paying big money for. Ask the school to provide you with figures that show what percentage of graduates become employed/work in the chosen field.
 
I remember years ago the "Richest Man in Canada", being interviewed on Canadian TV by the award winning journalist Barbara Frum. She asked, "Do you have any regrets?". He said, "My only regret is that I left school in grade six". She listened to this and you could see the tears welling up in her eye as she felt sorrow for the great man. Then he hit her with the punch line, "I should have quit in grade four!"
 
Everyone's opinion thus far has been invaluable. I think, kicking and screaming I'll finish this degree at least a semester early, but I'll get it.
 
I've never had a single client ask about where I learned and honed my skills. All that really matters is that you obtain the skills and can prove you're the real deal. There comes a time in you're career where you realize that what really lands you a gig is everything else. It's a sobering moment. Are you the right personality? Do you provide excellent customer service? Do you show up on time? Do you meet deadlines? Do you have a roster of satisfied past clients? Do you love AC/DC as much as the creative director from the agency? Do you like to grab a beer with the crew after you wrap? That's the reality of my world as a DP and Commercial Photographer. You're portfolio / reel is what puts you in the pool of candidates, everything else about you is what lands it. The only way I can see a degree being advantageous within the business is the potential for a common connection (ie. you and a possible employer have the same alma mater) - that's a very valuable thing, but is it worth $100K debt? I don't think it is personally. Most degrees are massively overpriced. As soon as you enter the industry, you'll see that no one really cares. Outside the industry, it could be useful, but only to a certain extent. Experience and personality lead to success in any profession.

For the record. Yes. I did go to school, it was a trade school for broadcast television production (ENG / EFP). What I do now involves skills I never learned there and when people learn that I taught myself how to composite, light, color correct etc. all I get is respect. I'm also a member of the younger generation that got screwed by overpriced degree's and inflated / fraudulent post graduation job claims - so I think that has something to do with the response.

Since you're already heavily invested, it's a tough call.
 
I graduated with an AS in 2004 for film production and in 2010 I started realizing that everyone around me in my field were obtaining at minimum a BS or even a Masters. At that point I made the decision to go back to school and get my BS in Entertainment Business. It was a hard decision because at the time I was already making good money and it wasn't a requirement for me to go back. But depending on where you work and the skills and certs that are important, it can be a wise choice to have that paper. Trust me I did not enjoy doing homework again especially with a full time job but I'm glad I did because of the reassurance it gives that more jobs will be available to me. Of course this applies more to full time employment scenarios in government or corporate environments. Because I have always wanted to work for myself I basically went in saying "I hope I never need to rely on this diploma to get a job because I'll be working for myself" but it is nice to know its there.

My advice is if you can financially manage finishing your degree then continue on. Its no joke that you will be able to start out at considerably higher pay level with a degree than without if you go into 9-5 position after graduation.
 
This is such an interesting debate...it's a common joke that a film degree means nothing in the film industry, but I don't think that's a great basis for dropping out. It's hard to say without fully understanding your financial situation, and I think there's a good amount of reason in thinking about the debt you'll potentially be accruing in order to finish. But as others have said, you've already put down X dollars on half of that piece of paper, and I can't help but agree that the investment you've already made will be more valuable having received the degree in the end.

As many have said, use this time to continue to develop artistically, as a business person, explore other areas outside of film if you can. No two degrees of the same name must necessarily equate to the same experience. Use this time to make more films, and take advantage of having a film school full of crew members and resources that can aid you in adding to your body of work. I can't imagine that a single film in your stable will take you everywhere you want to go (there may be a few exceptions to this, but by and large, a breadth of work and experience will get you further).

Consider it this way: if you stay the course, you will have a degree that may open some doors for you in the near future, but you may also have some added experience that will help contribute to the opportunities you'll receive outside of school...in that sense, it isn't the piece of paper that matters, but who you are and what you can offer by way of your knowledge and experience that will help you get work and further your career. But to say that the piece of paper will never be significant is a short-sighted statement in my opinion...an education is something that can never be taken away from you, and though the education is not solely the piece of paper, that paper signifies this to many outside of school and will continue to do so for many years to come. And who knows...30-40 years down the road, you may be looking for an exit strategy, where the long hours and physical work of the film industry isn't a good fit for the kind of life balance you want to achieve (be it because of family, physicality/longevity, etc). Maybe you want to get a Masters degree in some other field, perhaps you'd like to teach. I can't say that there are no jobs out there for someone without a degree, because there will always be exceptions to this, but the extra money you spend here and now to finish your degree will likely help to give you far greater options down the road.

Above all, I'd say that education is not limited to the confines of a classroom or a curriculum or a university...to think that we're ever finished learning is a huge limiting factor in the journey to reach our full potential as individuals. The education system in this country is a bit of a scam, I'll agree, but I think if you're persistent in making sure that you take advantage of all a university can offer you, you'll be in good shape to make it worth the expense. It's the people who just coast through a university education that are getting the short end of the stick.

For the sake of full disclosure, I have a BA in English and an MFA in Film...two degrees that won't necessarily get me to a clear career path. Nevertheless, I learned a lot of intangible things along the way that have contributed to my "whole" and I don't think I'd be anywhere close to doing the kind of work I'm doing now if I had dropped out as an undergrad (granted, an English undergrad). Just do what you can to get scholarships/grants to reduce the amount you owe to NYU, and make the remaining couple of years count by taking classes that broaden your scope and working on as many projects as you can while you're still "allowed to play."

I'm in NYC, so if you ever want to meet up for coffee or whatever to talk more about the matter, feel free to reach out.

Best,
Clint

Another quick note: to any of you who have taken a different path outside of college, please understand that I'm not trying to undervalue your experience or opinion in any way...everybody's life is a personal journey, there's obviously no single "right way" to do it. A degree is no substitute for hard work, drive, tenacity, self-acquired knowledge, on-set experience, and god-given talent. I just think it's a great thing to have in your back pocket, because you never know when it will matter. If someone were to come to me out of high school saying they want to go to film school, I'd be hesitant to recommend they do it...so many factors go into what makes it right, and that's a choice that ultimately comes down to the individual, their goals, their situation and circumstances. Anyway, this has been one of the best discussions I've seen on the forum for a long while, and I thank everyone for offering their feelings on the matter.
 
your education is what you make out of it. some of the greats were self-taught. i would recommend that you set aside the next couple of years to focus on developing your collaborative craft. i wouldn't accumulate mad amounts of debt to do that. if you have one or two mentors at nyu that you trust, it might be a good place to stay - but there's absolutely no reason to pay for something you're going to be biting and scratching about all the way through... not helpful to your artistic development. create a positive environment for learning wherever you are. :)
 
Michael Pyon said:
Everyone's opinion thus far has been invaluable. I think, kicking and screaming I'll finish this degree at least a semester early, but I'll get it.
Click to expand...

Good for you! Education is not just about getting a job. As others have pointed out in various ways, the social experience and the ability to put a much broader context to to your filmmaking endeavors are invaluable. Education is about learning how to learn and that is a skill you can use for the rest of your life. Please don't listen to those who say it is a waste of time and money because, unless you let it be a waste, they are dead wrong! Stay in school - and work your butt off to make it worthwhile. It's all up to you!
 
I didn't go to a "real film school" but went to a community college (norwalk connecticut) and then a state school (southern connecticut). I have been out of school two years, caught cancer, got better, got Reducated, worked as a wrangler a lot and some assistant editing work, bought a Red Scarlet, and have been shooting a lot of my own stuff for fun while building a reel. I think not having real film degrees def hurts me a bit, I know people who went to AFI, NYU, etc and I feel like there definitely is more legitimacy in their degrees then in mine and that it helps them to have the brand name degrees.

That being said I learned more out of school on this site, playing around with dslrs and Reds, taking classes at Abelcine, and just enjoying the process of production, both on spec or professionally. So I can't tell you what you should do, but I am considering going back to school myself to get an MFA from a brand name place like the one you want to drop out from. Things have been slightly slow, its hard to make a living on freelance which by its nature is quite inconsistent when your on watchful waiting, paying bills, and the bills come consistently unlike the work generally speaking.

I have a wonderful family that lets me live this starving artist kind of a lifestyle. I hope to have a reel up soon that I have been shooting with my friend. I work in a variety of capacities, DIT, AC, Cam op (on low budget bs), post work. I enjoy it all. Life is a wild ride man, you never really know where its headed. Finishing that degree may very well be a waste of money, but in this world things aren't certain, economies collapse, people get sick. You should protect yourself by getting a degree from somewhere generally speaking, unless your work is so good you can really live on it.

I don't think my work (mostly skate videos lol) is good enough to commercialize on and make a living, I like being a camera tech, op, doing wrangling (for other peoples productions). Its all fun stuff. Similar to you I have no idea what to do much of the time, I think even the big players don't ever really know where things are headed. Will 4k catch on now, is 3d dead, will your car start? Life is a damn scary thing, all you can do is keep on keeping on and try to make the best out of this horrible ride lmfao!

I think spending money on all the after school education I have is worth it. I continue my education constantly, whether here, abelcine, red classes, working around very very smart people. You can always learn more, every damn day of your life man.

PS tell your film school buddies you know a Red owner op willing to do rentals and DIT for them for reasonable rates. I am thankfully booked all next month, but nothing lined up after that yet...
 
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http://blogmaverick.com/2013/01/26/will-your-college-go-out-of-business-before-you-graduate/

Above is a link Mark Cuban... (From Shark Tank) writes about this subject. Found it interesting.

Personally I would figure out the cost and ask some questions

how am I paying for college? Debt, parents, grants?
Can I afford it?
Am I enjoying it?
What am I learning?
Where do I wanna be?
What are the qualifications needed to get my dream job?
How much will that job pay?

And so on.. Personally I loved college for the experience, the people, wouldn't change a thing. Go Beavs!!
 
2 worthless cents unless they are worth something to you... NYU is by no means a little pond... Quite the contrary... But compared to the rest of the world.... It is just that. If you know all of those things in the classes youre going to take, stay humble and stand out in a smaller pond. Stay hungry... Stay motivated... at 19... you have everything ahead of you... Dropping out is easy... Going back later on is not.... Doing your short while youre in school is a hell of a lot easier under the ubrella of an institution. People always want to help a student. More than that... Youre at a school of elite. Continue to make friends with the same drive and determination as you. Those friends will be your allies later on in life. "You are the company that you keep." Stand out and stay relevant. 2 Festivals are better than 1... I think you know where I'm going, but thats just me.

Best of luck with your decision.
 
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