Collaborating with the Director: Finding the sweet spot

[Scott Crawley]

I aspire to earn the Cinematographer's mantle. I work as DP on a lot of short form indie projects with other aspiring filmmakers. The thing I struggle with most us not technical, those things are pretty concrete and I'm always learning, I hope. The most difficult thing for me lies in the relationship with the Director.

The responsibilities of the DP are pretty easy to learn but what rights do we have, if any? That is much harder to get a handle on. When I talk with other DP's, we define our role as the Director's chief collaborator on the project, but nobody else on most of the indies I have worked on really seems to understand what that means.

My single largest dilemma is that the director's head is so often full of film marketing rhetoric that they will walk on to their first set utterly convinced of thier own omnipotence, and they are armed with the notion that nothing exists on set that has more value or merit than their own vision. This doesn't leave a lot of room for real collaboration.

The easy answer seems to be that I am simply working with the wrong sorts if people and that is certainly likely, but when it is time to make your case with the director need we be subject to their whims alone?

Thanks all for your thoughts.

 

[Jonas Rejman]

Scott, I think you are working with the "wrong" guys. I guess this attitude results from insecurity of the director, of no trust, that actually other people are competent as well. Sometimes also just plain arrogance.

God knows, that I was like that, annoying incredible capable people to hell... And I am so lucky, that they were just patient enough with me, and not punching my face. They just know I would come around.

I think a lot preparation can solve most of the issues, but ultimately, its about if you can work as two creative minds that are on some sort of a similar wavelength, or not.

I think it is difficult to find people, where you can exchange opinions, you challenge each other, but it never gets personal, because both are fighting for the project, and some things just have to be shout out to get done right. If everybody agrees, that's no good either. Conflict breeds creativity.

I find DP's actually the guys who make the directors look good. And I have the deepest respect. Of course, those must be Cinematographers, and not some dilettantes, who just bought a camera...

Once you find these people, it is incredible. Things just happen magically and its like flying.

I guess, one could say, that the director-dop relationship is as difficult as a dop-colorist relationship.


Having worked with a lot of idiots as well, I feel your pain.

 

[ericyoung]

I think you have to define the boundaries of the professional relationship BEFORE you ever walk on set. By then it may be too late. Note this is separate and different from whether you get on with them personally.

When you are first in contact, having read the script and decided you want to do it. Meet them face to face and decide you like them personally enough to spend long shooting days with them.

Assuming they like you too, you have to state that while you like them and the script, you are only interested in a collaborative project where you can have some creative input - not simply one where you are merely the employee.

If they aren't happy about that, then be prepared to walk away. You wouldn't enjoy working on that set anyway.

As Jonas said, it's usually born of insecurity, inexperience and inability to delegate - a common issue with directors starting out.

 

[Joe D'Arcy]

Scott, the analogy that is often used to describe the relationship between the director and DP is that similar to a marriage. As Eric mentioned, its best for the DP and the director to meet up beforehand and discuss the script and how its going to be shot in order to get a sense of how each other works. You'll get a reasonable idea of how things are going to work from a couple of meetings.

However, sometimes you end up in a prearranged marriage thats not much fun for anyone. When this happens you have to, at least, establish some ground rules for working.

 

[Thomas Wright]

It can be really tough sometimes, working with directors who don't have a clue about the basics but seem to trundle through on charisma with producers but no respect for what it takes to achieve results, especially on the smaller projects. I've worked with directors who have no idea about things like crossing the line or wanting a shot that would have to be taken by removing a wall or moving to another set up only to come back and shoot from the same position with the same lens something that could've been doen when you were there in the first instance. it's disconcerting but I soldier on noting these issues and the character of the person I'm working with hoping to learn from the experience at least.

I've not yet walked but I've given them a piece of my mind either on set or when they approach me for the next project, sometimes we work together again, sometimes we don't. Such is life.

 

[Scott Crawley]

Jonas, I think you are absolutely right. I'm dying for the day that I find a director that I am truly simpatico with.

Eric and Joe, OK so I'll have to interview better and trust my instincts more. Hopefully as my experience increases and the reel improves, trust will be less of an issue.

I seem to be getting better at managing expectations and setting boundaries, but on my last project I failed to walk away from pre-production when they gave me the ol' Okey Doke. On set the weasel attempted do pull my operator aside and take an ill-conceived shot without me... I wasn't suprised as much as flabbergasted.

Thomas, your comments bring lots of similar experiences to mind and it makes me chuckle nervously. I recently had an experience with an MFA student:
We had a series of scenes with the same people in one office sitting arond the same table. They were meant to be repetitive, happening over a series of days so the look and the coverage would remain exactly the same for each scene, only the wardrobe would change. We had one day to shoot almost twenty pages. I laid out the shots in the most efficient way possible and it was do-able.

The director however was adament that we shoot them in strict continuity... That would have turned a twentyish setup day into a thirty-six set up day and there simply wasn't time. Thankfully there was an AD on the show who could talk sense into the poor fool when I could not. It was comical.

 

[Jonas Rejman]

Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain. - Schiller

Sooooo Scott... where are you based? ;-D

 

[Scott Crawley]

Funny.

My memory is faulty, it was more like fifteen pages, but the set-ups were correct.

 

[Joel Kaye]

This doesn't leave a lot of room for real collaboration. (on set)

I try to work everything out in advance. Once you're on set it's kinda late to be "collaborating". At that point I'm executing the plan and the director is focusing on performances (hopefully). I'm certainly not going to get all "creative" and screw his head up after we're already on set.

Preplan. Preplan. Preplan. That's the time and place for collaborating. On set it's the Director's show IMHO.

I've backed out of a few projects because I could guess from the preplanning meetings things were going to be a disaster on set. You get a sense for people. Also, you have to establish yourself as an extremely good visual storyteller before they are going to be interested in what you've got to say. Just why is it they should listen to you and not trust their own instincts? It's their show in the end. (well, if the producer has agreed to that).

If the director wants a weird shot run over to the Assistant Director and see if you're going to lose any other shots. If not, just shoot it. Ya know? It often takes less time to grab a shot than argue about how stupid it is. They'll see it in post. Or they'll be right and you'll learn something. Arguing can really ruin morale. Actors get spooked easy.

 

[David Battistella]

THis is an interesting thread.

It reminds me of an old saying my grandmother had. It went something like this.


"when you point a finger at somebody, remember that you have three pointing back at yourself"

That said, work with people you like. That is the most important thing. You can not do your best work when you are working with people you do not like.

David

 

[jimhare]

Hi Scott, great thread, thanks for starting it!

I have worked as both so I play both sides of the fence. As a director, I want a DOP who sees the beauty in the frame, while I conduct the live drama. For me, a great DOP brings me ideas, comments on any aspect, including my dramatic decisions, then gets the best shots possible.

I DO NOT like it when a DOP says "let's try that again" or starts directing the talent. By all means bring it to my attention, but in the end the set requires a hierarchy and everyone needs to know that the only place to take direction is from the director.

As a DOP I try to do all those things. Bring ideas and criticism to the director (out of earshot of the rest of the crew/cast) and give them the best images I can.

I think the relationship is vital and should be relaxed, open, and mutually respected.

 

[Scott Crawley]

Preplan. Preplan. Preplan. That's the time and place for collaborating. On set it's the Director's show IMHO.

Yes, I hear you. I am happiest with a director who boards pretty thoroughly and we are working with a comprehensive plan, but not everyone works that way. Some like to improvise on the set more than others, and even when you have a complete set of boards there can be discussion about camera placement, or how to acheive the planned look.

Why should they listen to me and not just follow their own instincts? Presumably, they chose me for their DP because they were familiar with my visual sense and they knew that I was capable of getting the job done. I do appreciate that some folks are more self-reliant than others. I guess a lot of my fustration is coming from those who don't know what they don't know... You know?

Sorry if I was unclear but I wasn't suggesting that I would be getting creative with the plan on the day. When I describe the director walking on set with a god-like attitude it is meant to suggest a general mindset, something that exists in pre-production as well. When it is that clear, I have to learn to let go and walk, but it isn't always that clear. It is often something that seems to run amok on the set.

Thanks for the input. I appriciate that you are taking the time to share your experience. I'll be reflecting on it further as I take a closer look at my own attitudes and behavior. Come to think of it, this response is a little defensive, so I will look inward more.

 

[Scott Crawley]

Great reminders and a wonderful perspective Jim. Thanks for jumping in.

 

[Milan Spasic]

Great thread Scott, I hope it keeps going.

Good to know I'm not alone in my thinking.

Jim had some great points.

 

[jimhare]

Arrogance has no place on the set in my opinion. Nothing wrong with having strong opinions about your vision, but the whole "do it or I'll get someone who will" thing is garbage.

What I do find interesting is that some directors will go on set with any DOP as if they were interchangeable.

For me, it has to be a close and trusted relationship. With a boom operator, I'm happy with anyone who's competent, but a DOP is a very personal thing.

Yes, I hear you. I am happiest with a director who boards pretty thoroughly and we are working with a comprehensive plan, but not everyone works that way. Some like to improvise on the set more than others, and even when you have a complete set of boards there can be discussion about camera placement, or how to acheive the planned look.

Why should they listen to me and not just follow their own instincts? Presumably, they chose me for their DP because they were familiar with my visual sense and they knew that I was capable of getting the job done. I do appreciate that some folks are more self-reliant than others. I guess a lot of my fustration is coming from those who don't know what they don't know... You know?

Sorry if I was unclear but I wasn't suggesting that I would be getting creative with the plan on the day. When I describe the director walking on set with a god-like attitude it is meant to suggest a general mindset, something that exists in pre-production as well. When it is that clear, I have to learn to let go and walk, but it isn't always that clear. It is often something that seems to run amok on the set.

Thanks for the input. I appriciate that you are taking the time to share your experience. I'll be reflecting on it further as I take a closer look at my own attitudes and behavior. Come to think of it, this response is a little defensive, so I will look inward more.

 

[I Bloom]

Scott,

I'd say chill out, projects can be full of ill conceived notions of how a production should work and misguided egos. I've seen pretty big movies where this issue persists.

At the end of the day if your working with a director who doesn't need more from you than they are giving you then there is kind of nothing you can do. No need for debate, so best thing to do in that situation is to chill out, make it look pretty and try to make friends. Best case scenario, everyone wants to work with you again, but you are lucky enough to be booked on another project where you are fulfilled as a collaborator. On particularly tough shoots I channel the J.P Wodehouse character Jeeves, the gentleman's personal gentleman. "Woould sir like a two shot... very good sir... I'm glad yooou thought of it."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYf5YPNnfRY

You could also switch to directing... and then you'd have to deal with fucking DPs trying to tell you how to make your movie. Again with the greener grass.

IBloom

 

[Joel Kaye]

I guess a lot of my fustration is coming from those who don't know what they don't know... You know?

Yeah. I know what you mean. If you've got more experience and put in more study than they have it's a real challenge when they start acting like they are Tarentino. I just try to spot those guys ahead of time and bow out.

I tend to like people that have already failed a few times. It's mellowed me out.

I do point out when I see problems or notice a lucky opportunity for a shot that wasn't planned. I even whisper to directors to go again - but I'm with Directors who know I act and direct too and have permission to do that.

If they start losing control and getting off the plan I expect the AD to be on that. They keep the set running. If that doesn't work I might chime in about what shots we should cut to make time for the current adventure. I try not to argue about whether the current questionable shot should happen. Of course I have done that and I've always regretted it later.

I'll agree with everyone who says the DP and Director need to have a special relationship. Those two are running the show creatively and everyone is looking to them. You want to present a very consistent front.