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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Clipfinder workflow for "wrapped R3D"

Hans-Georg Daun

Hans-Georg Daun

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I have done a few tests with the new Log & Transfer plug-in.
There are 2 ways you can work with Clipfinder to edit quickly and then switch to wrapped R3Ds for finishing:

The difference between these approaches is in the edit steps, the conform steps are the same in both cases

1. Editing with reference files
(+: no transcode required -:requires more CPU power, depending on resolution)
- load clips into Clipfinder (CMD-I)
- select desired reference file resolution (P,M,H,F)
- drag into FCP
- edit
- export XML
- load XML into Clipfinder (CMD-ALT-I)

2. Editing with transcoded files
(+: faster editing -:transcode required)
- load clips into Clipfinder (CMD-I)
- render to ProRes at low debayer settings (e.g. 1K+)
- import transcoded files into FCP
- edit
- export XML
- load XML into Clipfinder (CMD-ALT-I)
- select "Replace MOV with R3D..." from File menu

Conform steps
- create temporary directory
- select all clips in the Clipfinder doucment you prepared as described above (CMD-A)
- press CMD-C
- go to temporary directory, press CMD-V. Clipfinder will copy all necessary .RDC directories to the directory
- in FCP, drag the temp directory onto the Log & Transfer window. Let FCP create wrapped R3Ds
- back in Clipfinder, select "Run conform on FCP XML file" from the Edit menu
- enter the FCP XML you created
- enter FCP's scratch directory for your project as the "clip directory"
- enter a suitable name for the XML output file
- if necessary, let Clipfinder re-scale your sequence(s)
- press "Run Conform"
- Clipfinder will warn you if it cannot find matching clips for your edit files.
- If the conform was successful, import the new XML file into FCP.

You have now replaced your editing files with wrapped R3Ds. Congratulations !

You can now delete the temporary folder.

If you are unsure about any of the steps above, look at the Clipfinder Help Pages (CMD-?).

If that doesn't help or if you run into problems, let me know, preferrably via my E-mail account which is listed in the Help Pages.

Notes: The more technically minded will realize that the temporary folder is not strictly necessary. You may as well drag your entire clip folder onto the Log & Transfer window.

This process would become even simpler if RED added the option to create wrapped R3Ds to REDline.

Cheers,
Hans
 
yes. I just rendered out offline quicktimes (so my editing can be very fast and not sluggish like with the proxies (either ones)), edit away, then export the xml, import it to clipfinder, match back to the r3ds, use this information to render log and transfer native quicktimes (follow hans's instructions) conform with clipfinder, import xml to FCP, send to color and you will have RAW files in color. Pretty easy and works very well....

good luck
scott
 
What about simple timeline effects? I understand the XML file cannot recognize these.
 
As long as you stay in Final Cut, all effects work and retain their settings even across XML-export / XML-re-import.
It is only when you move to Color that there are limitations.
Those are listed in RED's white paper.

Cheers,
Hans
 
Hans-Georg, danke schön for your software and support! I would like to know whether your Clipfinder workflow has been tested with 2k, 3k, 4k files in 2:1 and 16:9? Or if you foresee any problems with these resolutions...

thanks!

Jean Deraps
 
So I'll have to start using Clipfinder!

I have a short which is cut on cam/proxies which I need to online soon.
This really makes my day!
 
jdcineaste said:
Hans-Georg, danke schön for your software and support! I would like to know whether your Clipfinder workflow has been tested with 2k, 3k, 4k files in 2:1 and 16:9? Or if you foresee any problems with these resolutions...

thanks!

Jean Deraps
Click to expand...

Jean,

The problems you can expect are outlined in RED's white paper.
Clipfinder does not change any of the limitations associated with the use of wrapped R3Ds.

Cheers,
Hans
 
using H proxies

using H proxies

Hi hans

Thank you for your wonderfull clipfinder.

Question:

It seems that color deals with the h proxies pretty well, I've done quick tests side by side with the new wrapped quicktime and haven't notice differences between H proxies and wrapped quictime...

So is something wrong with this simple workflow?
-Import H proxies from Clipfinder in FCP
-Cut in FCP
-Grade in Color
 
Zem,

Obviously, editing with H proxies is slower then editing with low res proxies or transcoded clips. I don't have enough experience either way to say if there are any significant quality differences between H proxies and wrapped R3Ds.
As you probably know, people have advocated finishing with H proxies for quite a while, so I guess it's a pretty good approach.
If there were any differences, they would most likely show with aggressively corrected shots, (e.g. material pulled up from significant underexposure) and in material that benefits most from a full debayer, e.g. timelapse clips shot with very slow shutter speeds (1 sec.)

Cheers,
Hans
 
You can edit with small proxies, send to Color, clips will appear zoomed in, go to geometry tab in Color, dial "2" for scaling, clips are now normaly displayed and they are the 12bit 2k layer of the original R3D.

This is actually much simpler than the Log and transfer thing, but I need to try and do some rendering and send this back to FCP, andsee how that goes.

Emmanuel
 
This does work well, actually change your project settings to 2048x1024 and the whole image will be there (if you used _P)

scott
 
editing with proxy

editing with proxy

Thank's Hans for your clear answer.

It seems that Color work directly with the R3D file, the half debayer R3D to be more precise. So the solution of Emmanuel doesn't surprise me, whatever the proxy you use Color deal with the 2K R3D

I'll will try with P proxies as Emmanuel said.
If this solution works it a huge step in the red workflow, so quick and simple.
With the little help of clipfinder.
12 bit 2K 4 4 4 on a laptop...I steel can't believe it

So there still a big problem. The endless gamma issue of quicktime.
I render my shots from color in prores back in FCP and the result is darker than the color output...
Any solutions? :waaa:
 
Hans,

When a render fails on a specific clip, there doesn't seem to be a way to re-render that clip without re-importing it. I've looked through the help file. Am I missing something?

Great software... especially useful now with the L&T plugin in FCP for RAW onlines...
 
Trevor,

The easiest way to re-render a clip is as follows

- press the stop button in the render window
- select the failed clip(s)
- check "render selected clips only"
- press the reset button (to the right of the stop button)
- press the start button

Alternatively
- open a new document
- drag failed clips to new document
- render from new document

Cheers,
Hans
 
Emmanuel Cambier said:
You can edit with small proxies, send to Color, clips will appear zoomed in, go to geometry tab in Color, dial "2" for scaling, clips are now normaly displayed and they are the 12bit 2k layer of the original R3D.

This is actually much simpler than the Log and transfer thing, but I need to try and do some rendering and send this back to FCP, andsee how that goes.

Emmanuel
Click to expand...

Huh? Is this correct. You edit on "P" proxies, reset geometry in Color and it rescales and in essence it like the "H" proxie - no difference in quality???? Am I understanding this correctly? And they are 12 bit? Have you tried any comparison tests?

I just tried a FCP timeline of "H" proxies to Color. When all were 4k it was fast and worked well. When I mix 3k into that same timeline it crashed a few times on import into Color and/or it responded rather slowly in Color when it did not crash. Anyone else have this?
 
it seems to me wether you use _p _m _h or the wrapped QuickTime it goes back to the original r3d and does a 1/2 debayer for 4k and 3k and a full debayer for 2k in color. It really appears to be the original r3d in there. I have no real way of knowing but all my 4k footage is 2048x1024 no matter which QuickTime I use. I can't stand editing with the proxies but maybe using the _m and I can edit fast. Of course we must test. I am curious about the performance of the wrapped quicktimes versus the reference quicktimes. Now of course focus will be more difficult to check if using _p but at least it's an option. The biggest advantage I see to the wrapped qts is you can take them with you but I think apple needs to seriously make the performance better.

I do know that thanks to hans we can still edit with transcoded qts which can render very quickly if you use his 1k+ setting and still get back to these wrapped qts to send to color. Maybe we could conform back to the reference qts to save the log and transfer step, but it is very fast.

Mahalo hans you have been all our hero for so long. Clipfinder is my favorite red ap of all and it will always be used in my book ;)
Scott
 
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