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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Classes from Digital Jungle?

Chris Ratledge

Chris Ratledge

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Ran across this website surfing this evening:

http://redonecamera.com/classes.html

Did a search on the board here and found nothing, curious if anyone knows anything about this, heard of the outfit before, or worked with any of these people. While not a 1:1 substitute according to the accounts of those I know who've attended Reducation, (not to mention the info on this board) this would be much more possible for me financially.
 
I can't ask a book follow-up questions when I have them. Well I can ask, but it won't answer me.

Picking up some literature is on my list as well, but if I can get some specified training from others, that's going to pique my interest.

By contrast, Reducation is several thousand dollars over more days, which increases travel expenses even further.
 
They may be pukka but I wonder how 'official' they are? RED are, understandably, protective of their TM's but this group use the RED One name in that website title (not to mention the RED 'look' of the site) and also use the RED logo, although it says at the bottom of their web page that "....are not affiliated with Red Digital Cinema Camera Co" (sic).
RED have stated their intention to introduce a Certified Trainer programme, to spread the Reducation net wider, but I don't think that system is up and running yet (perhaps these people are the first, but if so wouldn't there have been some sort of an announcement about it?).


Have you taken a look at the RED 101 DVD/Online training package? I wonder if that might suit you:

http://dreamwelder.com/red101/source=RU"]http://dreamwelder.com/red101/source=RU[/URL]

(come to think of it, I wonder what Jay thinks of the use of the RED101 phrase on the other site :)).
 
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Spoke to the class director over the phone a few days ago. Apparently RED is well aware of their operation, so he claims, and no, they are not affiliated with them in any way, this is a completely independent operation, just as I assume anything offered by a rental house or a production guild would be.

Basically just said that they don't believe in asking more than $1000 of working freelancers to get their hands on the camera in a workshop setting, do some shooting and discuss workflow operations with their DI and post crew. Considering all the costs associated with travel to LA from the Midwest, $500 for 3 day workshop sounds pretty good to me.

Class size is apparently small (dozen or so) and it's def. an intro course; they start from the perspective that everyone in the course is being exposed to the camera for the first time. Said their past participants have included everyone from working DPs, ACs and DITs, to indy producers and directors and the occasional student or intern. That's not very appealing to me, but there are limits to what I can grasp from print or video training, which I will surely investigate as well.
 
Training Feedback

Training Feedback

Hi Chris,

Hey I'm all for options, and I'm a big believer in training with the best of the best. Two summers ago I did an intensive at USC's film school, and last summer I attended the first Reducation.

What I've learned is it's all about the level of domain expertise of the teachers, and the seriousness and energy of the students.

Reducation at five days is just barely enough to cover the breadth of knowledge necessary to wrap your head around RED from acquisition to post.

Ask any Reducation student if there were any lull's and they'll laugh and tell you they thought their head might explode. :)

There are some resources there that you are just not going to get anywhere else, such as Ted as an authoritative source from the company, and Michael who's company is top dog in RED post in LA, 4K projectors, and enough cameras and kit that everybody gets real hands on experience. At Reducation you are going to get access to cutting edge mobile post solutions like the below and the ability to directly compare M and MX, and have the ability for everyone to have a mac with R3D Data Manager, Clipfinder and RedCine-X and personally work through the work flow completely hands on.

http://digitalcontentproducer.com/fieldprod/revfeat/post_in_the_field_0825/index1.html


I thought so much of the program that I traveled to LA and TA'd in the last session.

All the TA's there were both former students and working professionals with a broad level of experience working daily with RED. It says a lot that these guys stepped away from their busy careers, traveled, and made time to give back to the RED community.

Jack's company owns in excess of thirty RED's and has been at it from the beginning, talk about a valuable resource for real world solutions!, and I learned a ton from Von and Eric as well.

Yes 2500.00 isn't a trivial expense, but I'm certain you will get excellent value for your money.

The Digital Jungle training may be quite good, but in every other venue I've been in (including this weeks FCPLA RED event) there has been a lot of unclear or less than current information, and often based on outdated tools or work flows, and if you are coming from outside of LA like me, you still get stuck with the travel expense.

The other thing to consider is that the higher cost serves as an excellent filter, the people at Reducation are serious and focused.

At other workshops you are likely going to get a lot more very inexperienced people and burn time explaining the basics.

Having just reread this, I realize that I'm coming off as very one sided. It's not my intention to denigrate other training opportunities. I teach RED workshops for the local community college and have have presented in other RED training venues myself, and I wouldn't do that if I wasn't sure that I was benefiting the students/attendees. Any program that provides a good working knowledge of the RED benefits the entire community.

That said, it were me, I'd do Reducation, I did and I'm really happy I did.

Cheers,

Steve
 
Chris Ratledge said:
Ran across this website surfing this evening:

http://redonecamera.com/classes.html

Did a search on the board here and found nothing, curious if anyone knows anything about this, heard of the outfit before, or worked with any of these people. While not a 1:1 substitute according to the accounts of those I know who've attended Reducation, (not to mention the info on this board) this would be much more possible for me financially.
Click to expand...

Hey Chris:
I don't know anything about the class you're talking about, but the rundown on the link you put up sounds like a fairly well-thought-through class structure.

I took the REDucation course in Vegas starting with a fairly high level of RED experience, and was really blown away by how much I learned. I was lucky enough to be asked to assist at the LA course along side Steve Lovett and some other really talented professionals, and I have to say I'd be really impressed if any other course compares as a 2:1 or 4:1 or whatever:1 substitute. 60 hours with Ted and Michael and core guys who really know up-to-the-minute RED knowledge would be very hard to duplicate, I would think. I know I was ready for an entire 2nd week: it felt like the more I learned, the more I realized I needed to learn.

I think RED as a company encourages all good RED learning, so well-put-together classes are all to the good. I hope the Digital Jungle class you mention is such a course. I do think, however, that price is not a useful comparison. I notice that Digital Jungle (wisely, I believe) makes no such comparison themselves.
 
I'm biased, I love the class that Michael Cioni and Ted have put together. As one of the TA instructors for REDucation I benefit from each class I work with, and I've worked with all 5 REDucations. There is something unique here, people travel the world over to learn from the best in the business. I think that is the difference between this and other classes. The level of learning goes very deep. I made a comment about a recent event I attended, that while the info shared was good, it was surface, with the depth of information missing, which does not prepare you well. This RED workshop maybe good, so those that attend, please share your experience.

Von
 
No offense but that site screams dodgy to me, links to movies that were shot on the RED with no affiliation mentioned, lots of dead links, and the name in infringing on copyright of RED dc, doesn't scream professionalism to me at any rate.
 
I'm not going to try to defend their website design choices. To be honest, until mentioned in this thread I never really noticed with any critical eye the photos of the productions shot on Red, cause that's not where my focus was pointed. I was much more interested in reading the course description and outline of the training details.

I guess it just doesn't bother me as much as others here. :confused1:
I never got the impression they were trying to take any undue credit for anything, they're just offering a weekend workshop training with the camera system.

As I've stated, I know this isn't the same as reducation, but it's also not 5 days and $2500. At some point I hope to be able to take a reducation course, but it's currently unaffordable, and I shared this link to hopefully get some insight if anyone had in fact taken their course before, and to offer it as a possibility for others who may also find reducation cost prohibitive.

While a BMW may be well worth the money, it doesn't matter if I can only afford a VW.
 
I have to agree with Stephen, Eric and Von this is an overview of Red, if you want THE RED Education, Reducation is the way to go. I have taken the Reduaction class, my colleagues also took it, all of us are doing well in red business.

One day overview is not enough to understand the system and workflow, Don't want to sound too advertising, but Ted_Red, Michael Cioni and team are not just teaching the class, but they are giving lot of outside the box information (some people do respect that kind of thinking),

As I always say, you can learn on your own, it will only take you months of research or you can INVEST (not spend) INVEST in the education from the right source.

Cheers
 
Digital Jungle

Digital Jungle

Hey Ya'll,

I took the Red workshop at D.J. For the money I thought it to be very informative and well worth it.

There were six people in the class. We had two full Red camera packages. So there was tons of hands on. I think we built and tour down the cameras probably 6 or 7 times. That was good!
They had one work station to teach workflow. For six people it seemed adequate.

The first lesson was watching "shot on Red' material in a screening room. This portion was taught by a professional colorist. We got to see the "do's and don'ts'" of shooting on the Red. As seen from a post production stand point. It was a hour of "Don't worry we will fix it in post" $$$$. We discussed and viewed the Red's exposure latitudes. The take away; Do it right the first time. Coloring is very expensive!

Another lesson, taught by a FCP editor, was about an editor's data expectations. We sat around the work station as he imported actual footage that we shot into FCP. It was interesting to see what happens to the files and where they go...etc.

Every day we shot footage in different Kelvin and exposure ranges. Then analyzed.

There was hours and hours of working thru the menus. We set the cameras up in all kinds of different "projects".

So all in all not too bad.

Pros
Very hands on.
Very little sitting thru lectures.
Lunch was included all three days.
Very good instructors.
Nice facility.

Cons
Taught from a newbies point of view (I think the low cost opens the doors to non professionals)
Sometimes it felt like film school all over again, not a Red class

Hope this was helpful.
Cheers,
James
 
Did they teach you the Gray Card (VonCard)?

Did they teach you the Gray Card (VonCard)?

Here are pix from the class I taught in Dublin Ireland, small class, great students. My REDucation experience gave me the skills to teach this class.

Von
 

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I don't know what a "Von" card is..sorry.
We did use color charts and 18% gray cards. In my opinion learning how to use these tools is film school 101.
 
This may be film school 101, but if you aren't using a gray card when you shoot RED, you are working backwards. We teach the use of the gray card at REDucation, in fact I do a demo inwhich I show how easy to get your color spot on using the VonCard (gray card). The gray card can also help with your exposure. These are fundamentals of shooting digital cinema (RED), and if you use these tools properly, your shoot, your work of art will be enhanced big time.

Von
 
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