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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Cinevate Durus or ARRI FF-4 ?

Hard to decide now,

$1,200 for the Durus
$2,100 for the MFF-1
$3,800 for the FF-4
 
The short version is UPS lost it. I rented it to someone and they returned it on schedule... Package made it to the local UPS facility and then vanished. I called asking what was up, package was supposed to be delivered, tracking info shows that nothing happened to it after it arrived in town the night before.

Somehow the label pouch got ripped off the flight case -- like completely ripped the front of the plastic pouch and label off and the back side of the pouch with adhesive was presumably still stuck to the case. They found the label... Had me come down to see if I could identify what the label was supposed to be attached to. But they didn't have my case with the FF3 inside. So after about another 10 days of apologies from UPS while they continued to "investigate" and "look for it", they gave up and paid the insurance claim. I've been renting an FF3 or FF4 ever since.

I didn't actually own the FF-3 for very long, only about 6 months. I got a hell of a deal picking up that kit used and in really good condition, but obviously well used. Worked perfect... After that experience, I don't make a habit of shipping my gear, I keep it local. Not that UPS and FedEx lose things very often. They do, but it's pretty rare and the gear is probably a lot more likely to be stolen out of my car or out of a rental customer's vehicle while here in town anyway.

I kept planning on buying an FF-4, but never did... Now I've decided to go smaller and cheaper and continue to rent the large unit when needed, so I ordered the Durus the other day, just based on a few reviews. I've used the MFF-1 and almost ordered it, but I figured I'd check out the Durus first... If it works as well for my purposes, then it'll save me about $850.
 
A note about versatility...
The Durus seems like a nice little unit, but it's a one trick, one side pony. Even if it does all it claims (I'd guess it does) it's still going to frustrate you and slow you down when you're AC has to pull off all the AKS to switch it to the other side and then reset his marks. An FF4 is a sizable investment but a very versatile one, capable of all rod standards including lightweight video (Scarlet?) and can also take the sizable amount of extensions, adapters and specialized gears that has made the FF series the rental house work horse. And it's not as heavy as it might seem once stripped down.
 
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Evin Grant said:
it's still going to frustrate you and slow you down when you're AC has to pull off all the AKS to switch it to the other side and then reset his marks.
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that is certainly true. I'm still curious how the two compare weight wise, though.
 
Jeff, i havn't had a chance to test it out on a set of RPP's yet unfortunately. And i just recently cancelled my order for these lenses so i am not sure when i will get a chance.
In regards to the gears, they have two sizes available...make sure you order the alternative as it is larger and provides different clearances for different lenses.
Also, if i had lot of $ sitting around i would have bought an FF4 but for jobs and rentals or for an AC's choice that want the best they can easily rent one. I havn't also had the opportunity to use the arri lightweight but i hadn't with the Durus also. I bought it based on a few reviews and looking at what if offers and how it is built. Finally i decided to take the gamble and buy it over the Arri because of the $ saving essentially and i believed it looked to be a great product.
All in all i am very happy with the purchase and it works great and is extremely flexible. Yes the AC has to flip the gear and re-align marks if changing sides but heh, i have to adjust my EVF, lcd etc. It works well, feels like you could drive a truck over it and is nice and smooth and as before extremely flexible to different lenses and positional setups. I don't know the weight but it's much of a muchness with other units, it's machined aluminium.

But the little niggly things...

1. The centre screw in the focus wheel needs to be done up quite tight and possibly even with some thread lock because if it isn't the whole wheel can turn and not move the gears...if there is sufficient lens resistance..then you are not focus pulling, just turning a wheel and your marks will need to be reset.
2. The magnets that hold the marker ring on to the focus wheel have already come off and needed to be re-glued.
3. The alternative gear that gives extra body clearance for lenses like Zeiss mk3 speeds on a RED reduces a little of the movement of the adjustable focal point marker. This is such a small thing so does not really count.
4. Small amount of lag, but it's pretty good.

Like i said, not big things and considering the build quality and flexibility of the unit combined with the small $ paid...i am very happy and when the circumstance and budget allows i can always get in an FF4.
 
Thanks Brigham,

I was just about to cancel my Durus order and your few comments pushed me over. They updated me this morning saying it's still another 2 to 3 weeks before they can ship the unit and I need to have it within the next 10 days. So now it looks like it's MFF-1 for me... I don't know, I may just get the FF-4 and be done with it. I can always sell it later if I really need to go more compact.
 
I am telling you guys the CAvision dual sided 19mm FF is worth looking at. It is not an FF4, but it is the best I have found for the price. Mine has less than 1mm of backlash, is dual sided, and cost under $1200.


Mahalo,
Dusty
 

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Dustin,

I looked at the CAVISION when it first came out. It's not bad for the price at all and I did consider it. I think what turned me off from it is if I was going to go for a full-width, double sided FF kit, I would just get the Arri. I know, the Arri is 3X the price... But it's also the one everyone wants to have in the rental kit.

Evin makes some really good points above -- especially about the FF-4 when stripped down. It natively mounts onto 15mm lightweight rods, so becomes much smaller and lighter in that configuration. You can save about $400 off an FF-4 kit (for 19mm folks) if you go with a good 60mm to 19mm adapter rather than Arri's FF-4 19mm mount. For 15mm offset folks, you're probably best off to just get the 15mm studio mount.

...Screw it. I think I'll be getting the FF-4.
 
I completely agree, the FF4 is what everyone wants, but if you can't afford it and are making compromises...

I replaced my Redrock FF with the CAvision. The Redrock is a great little FF. Brevis makes great stuff. The Petroff/Zacuto FF is nice. But not having a dual sided FF just became too much hassle for me. Plus the gear box on my Redrock and most of these is a problem with short lenses. It either gets in the way of the camera body or the matte box. I have been on a lot of Red shoots where b cam shows up with one of these one sided FF and can't use his matte box and FF at the same time.

Bottom line, if you can afford the FF4, get it, if you are considering alternatives, the CAvision is under $1200, dual sided, supports 19mm and 15mm, has less than 1mm backlash, and is the only choice if you can't afford the FF4.


Mahalo,
Dusty
 
I would have thought the Arri MFF-1 would be "the" budget alternative to the venerable FF-4. Arri quality for $2K - what's not to like?

BTW - I have owned Cavision kit in the past and it did not hold up in the field, YMMV.

Cheers - #19
 
I heard CAvision completely redesigned their FF. My current unit has worked great on a couple features and several small projects since I bought it a few months ago.

Granted all the CAvision stuff I have used in the past has been total crap, but I am very happy with this FF.


Dusty
 
Jeff

what is this cheaper adaptor you speak of? I'd like a $400 discount!
 
Richard Darge said:
Jeff

what is this cheaper adaptor you speak of? I'd like a $400 discount!
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NateWeaver said:
Abel makes one, 19mm to LW15. It's not snap-on though, which is a big deal to some ACs. It's a real time-suck to have to pull the MB to reconfig the FF.
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Here's the AB-1519 adapter on the ARRI MMB-1 and MFF-1. Abel Cine Tech also has the AB-1515 which is 15mm bridge to 15mm LWS. They are very useful as a general AC kit piece for adapting the unexpected. Saved me twice at NAB this year!
 

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The Abel one is one option, but kinda pricey at $325. I could swear that Zacuto makes one, but don't see it on their site. Come to think of it, I think they may have canned that product when they released the Jeep... RED sells their 19 to 15 adapter for $95, it attaches to the top of a Universal Mount and then you give it a couple short 15mm rods. ET has solutions to adapt to 15mm lightweight rods as well.

With most 19 to 15 adapters, they either have 15mm nubs as part of the adapter or you use short rods (like 3 inches). In most cases, clip-on isn't completely necessary as the FF could be pulled off the nubs or short rods of the adapter without sliding off the mattebox or other gear in front of it.

I guess the way I was looking at it is I already have the RED 19 to 15 adapter, plus another 19 to 15 adapter similar to Abel's that I made myself. So I don't need the Arri BA-2 to mount the FF-4 to 19mm rods. Looking at it now, if you have a spare RED universal mount, you could pick up their 19 to 15 adapter and a pair of 3" ET ultra rods ($135 total plus tax/shipping). vs. the ~$475 for the Arri BA-2. Not as elegant, but a solution...
 
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