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Cineron

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Miller Nguyen

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Going to check out the cineron in vegas tomorrow, anyone else going to the UAV show?
 

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do they have a site, can't find anything except a demo video...
 
Here is some footage of the first test flight with a Scarlet, 24mm L prime and prototype Cineron. Shot on a DSLR unfortunately.

 
Refering to the above video , Iam not sure what is this suppose to prove since it doesnt seem to find horizon in any case, and even at the night video the horizon is slightely off.
Not very satisfied from what I see. Could this just be an out of tune head?
 
I think what is truly incredible about that very first test flight video is the level of stabilization, that is sub pixel stabilization at 4k resolution on something that is lightweight enough to go on a very shaky RC aircraft that is being flown intentionally in a very unstable way. Those rods you can see shaking like crazy out the front are what the camera is hanging from.

Your right about the horizon of course, but that is a operator skill, on that first fight that was a engineer on the camera controls testing gains and lens control and did not have anything framed up or even in focus. Typically on a shoot the operator locks in a horizon and it will not move.


I think a more impressive demo reel will be out soon, the Cineron has already been used in some big movies, most recently The Tomb and 2 Guns.


I'm surprised nobody has noticed that awesome Canon mount that gives it wireless lens control.
 
Hello Aaron. I have been doing robotics and gyrostability for quite a few years. You are correct in a few points however the vibrations of the heli or any platform is the easiest part to take care of , even rc users have managed to take care of it and there are about 20 different ways of doing this depending on the platform. To be quite honnest a wide open lens doesnt say much though, since there are more and more people give very smooth and with out vibrations shots with this kinda lens. Wireless controlls are also very easy to adapt and again there are many ways doing this. What I havent seen so far is pulling mediume to longer lens shots and prove that the antivibration system works, as well as the smoothness of the head and of course gyros.
Noone so far has done that in a small platform, but Iam afraid this is the only test that can demonstrate the stability, fine control, and antivibration effect to a gyrostabilised head.
Now if the head was controlled by a tech, and they didnt mean to lock horizon its all cool , however I do see some attempts of the head reaction to rapid moves of the heli and still not get where it should.
But it might be just that.
At the second video though towards the end there is still horizon missalignment and the shot is relative easy.
I would like to see the head pan in the air at medium fast to fat moves while the heli is flying straignt or in bows for better , and then see the behaviour of the gyro correction in horizon. And of course as I said, some longer lenses.
btw. these rods are where the camera is hanging from , but there are 4 antivibration mounts in between. If you thing that the gyros take care of these vibrations Iam afraid you are not correct.
Off the record I have worked with Gyron a few times, and I am looking for a similar responce even so the price tag is different, clearly because I belive that... it can be done these days.
and this is after a lot of R&oD. So please take this as valiable input rather than product race..

thanks
 
constantine Tirintzis said:
Hello Aaron. I have been doing robotics and gyrostability for quite a few years. You are correct in a few points however the vibrations of the heli or any platform is the easiest part to take care of , even rc users have managed to take care of it and there are about 20 different ways of doing this depending on the platform. To be quite honnest a wide open lens doesnt say much though, since there are more and more people give very smooth and with out vibrations shots with this kinda lens. Wireless controlls are also very easy to adapt and again there are many ways doing this. What I havent seen so far is pulling mediume to longer lens shots and prove that the antivibration system works, as well as the smoothness of the head and of course gyros.
Noone so far has done that in a small platform, but Iam afraid this is the only test that can demonstrate the stability, fine control, and antivibration effect to a gyrostabilised head.
Now if the head was controlled by a tech, and they didnt mean to lock horizon its all cool , however I do see some attempts of the head reaction to rapid moves of the heli and still not get where it should.
But it might be just that.
At the second video though towards the end there is still horizon missalignment and the shot is relative easy.
I would like to see the head pan in the air at medium fast to fat moves while the heli is flying straignt or in bows for better , and then see the behaviour of the gyro correction in horizon. And of course as I said, some longer lenses.
btw. these rods are where the camera is hanging from , but there are 4 antivibration mounts in between. If you thing that the gyros take care of these vibrations Iam afraid you are not correct.

thanks
Click to expand...

Wow Konstantinos - pretty judgemental of a first prototype flight where they were just testing the basics of the system… Perhaps when the engineer hands the controls over to a skilled operator who has experience we may get a better idea?
I'd love to see your first flight UAV footage, perhaps you could post footage from the rig you've built?
 
Hey man, I havent build a rig of this kind.
I would call my requests valiable imput rather than judgment, and if this is what you get out of my post then I apologise.
I am stating what I would like to see fro a system that is stated as the cream of the small gyroheads.
the problem with this kind of gear of this size that cannot reach the quality of shots of larger systems , is electronics, sensors and motor technnology, and that is because of size and weight.
if from the other hand you are satisfied with wide lens and close to solid horizon lock offs, then all cool just get a system a make your movies.
what I would like to see from all these innovators building gyrostabilised heads using the filmotecnic consept, is the chalemges of all my above description.
But hey if all these exist on the Cineron already, and Iam missjugging the system then hats of to Cineron or any other company that can do this.I will buy one as long as my octa can lift it.
Iam just asking for tests that I think they can qualify for this, and thats what I would like to see. Clearly my oppinion. No offence.
just for the record , a horizon lock and then a rapid all around moves of the heli, would really be a better test, and it would be more close to what they tried to test which I believe was a similar test to Cineflex when the heli is rapidly do 20-30 degree rolls and nose pans while the head is looking at the heli landing bars. But that was made with a lock horizon, which shows you no drift. So that what they could demo in their first test instead of paning rolling a tilting all over the place.
Now where exactly do you think Iam mistaken? Because I ask for a better test so I can see if it works for my requirements? Thats the standards I need to see before I buy this, so whats wrong with that?
Again my apologies if you feel offended.
 
My point Konstantinos is that the only thing you can judge / take away from that video is that there is a company called cineron who is working in an industrial park somewhere in the southern U.S. to develop a rig that can be flown on a UAV. PERIOD!
We don't know what stage of development they have reached, other than as shown it's a prototype (bare metal, exposed circuit boards). We don't know what bugs they are working out of the software, and we haven't seen a final version flown by a capable pilot with a camera op who knows how to control a camera in that type of rig.
So maybe at the point of shooting this test 'Horizon lock' wasn't fully implemented? It's a loooong road to build, test, perfect, and implement features - and I applaud every company that gives it a go. Especially in this age of the internet where every step of the process is exposed, I'm sure better tests are coming (you can see other steps in the development on vimeo: https://vimeo.com/35672071). At this point I don't believe they even have a website, dealers, or are offering it for sale.
 
Glen Iam not sure why you are so whind up with me asking for tests I like to see, but again Iam saying its all cool. I can take this one step ahead if you want to go tech and discuss with you about how accurate the sensors hey use can be for the goal, and their approach, as I have done many tests as well with rc off the self sensors and everytime with interesting results. That is the chalenge to achieeve with these kinda sensors unfortunatly, noone so far including the best footage of cineron had managd to pull.
I have used gyron as an operator many times and I have seen how far that goal is to achieeved. Even if the price is quite different lol. But because technilogy is moving, and Iam following it closelly, maybe Iam a little more demanding in what I ask from this kinda gear. So I dont understand your point in all this, of course you are correct, there is a company called Cineron. who is working in an industrial park, somewhere in the US to develope a rig etc, but why are you so offended of me asking to see more demanding tests?
After all I thought that was going to go on sale, isnt it why everyone is asking about it?
if not then Iam not interested at all and sooner or later I will develope something for my octa and Epic. This gyrohead btw doesnt look suitable for multicopters as its way larger and heavier than multicopters can handle.
Gas helis however are perfect.But not my kinda favorite UAVs

and BTW hoizon lock is the one and only thing everyone is trying to achieeve FIRST and withTHE BEST POSSIBLE RESULT, thats what gyroheads are build to do. So its implemented allright.Other wise it would be called pan tilr roll head.
Iam suer if you look at their videos you will see the head reaction to compansate.
 
You're right - we should demand more from every prototype test, and condemn those who fail to meet our expectations… I am error.
 
ok well man I have very politelly explained my intentions. Now you seem to be more in a mood to make this look like Iam attacking to Cineron, and say that they are no good.
That is a forum that people ask for things, and they all do it, they do it with Red and you will discover about 1million posts asking for new stuff, requests etc.
this is not a war, this is meant to be constractive so companies can make better gear. Noone said that Cinerosn is no good, noone condemn Cineron, just asking for some questions and some more testing.
So if that is going to make you feel better , congratds to Cineron for their first test, Iam looking fwd to se some more..
best
 
What kind of other applications can we use this system for?
I'm not really into RC choppers and all that but I'm still trying to figure out a lightweight solution for shooting from boats or cars.
I've tried to get in touch with Cineron but without any luck...
 
You're okay Konstantin, I see your point and think you have explained politely and clearly. It seems to have become a little personal on the other side of the debate. Don't worry about it - this forum is occasionally somewhat excessive on people who question the accepted modes of things. I seem to recall you were looking into doing some running rig gyro handheld system a while back. Are you still looking into that idea?
 
hello James. On my old company I made a rig that accepted 2 kenyon Gyros that could be mounted in convinient places. Though it worked very well for shooting from cars or boats on the shoulder, it wasnt as good if you were to walk around very rapidly and do sudden turns due to the kick back of the gyros as they react in violent moves.
But if you could do gently walking it worked very well. The rig had a roll axis gimbal so that was a great point to work with gyros
the other draw back was that it was kinda heavy at the time working with the Red1 on the shoulder.
But I quess now with tyhe Epic is a different situation.
Now in my new company launcing the Titan rig, Iam working at the same time and Iam almost at the finish line to complete our Moco system which ended up to be a complete
dolly,jib,3 axis head rig , and I had plans to make a octacopter sortly after that. Iam still R&D for this, and I was planning to get a gyrohead if it was good enough for my expectations, but I think now I will be getting into making one as I have done most of the research .
we will see. Just to much load these days to handle it all at the same time.
You know sometimes because of the different language and way of writting your thoughts many of us not English origin get missunderstood and we might sound a bit harsh but I hope people eventually understand this at the end .
Iam always trying to get and give as much info as possible on this forum and help out as much as I can.
thanks again and take care
 
Hey Vincent , In general if the system works on a rc heli, it can very well work on a number of many other applications, boat, car, etc, as long as for each application there is some additional needed harware. For example if you were to use it on a car, you would probably need a spring arm offset absorber to get rid of the very low frequency vibs and bumps of the car when the road surface is not good. But in general if a gyro head works well correcting horizon accuratly then it can work out in many applications.
The easiest would be a crane to start with.
best
 
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