Cinema Glass on 7D/5D vs. Still Glass on Epic

[Jon Carr]

There's a lot nuts in the DSLR world, Phillip Bloom included. All the tests I done with my 7D was around 4-5 stops depending on iso settings when shooting video. Personally for me the 7D/5D's sensor is not worth Cinema glass when shooting video. Epic on the other hand is worth any lenses the look of the film calls for. I would rather go only PL lenses, but to each their own.

 

[Bryce O]

Zacuto and Phillip Bloom who are trying to sell you dreams via overpriced DSLR rigs? Ah yes, a truly unquestionable authority.

Real pro photo sites rate the 5D and 7D as 8-9 stops in RAW - which is very, very different.

I'd say 6-7 stops. Lattitude is subjective - if you have ass-monkey low standards, then hell, its 20 stops, because maybe you can kind of make something out in the shadows underneath all that macroblocking.

teh original M sensor had MUCH more lattitude.

I don't buy into those rigs... No way I'd spend $3000 for a gear to shift my focus 90 degrees. Those rigs remind me of spoilers and rims that those kids put on their Honda Civics.

BTW, are we speaking of Latitude or Dynamic Range? Because they're very different. Latitude is yea, maybe 2 stops? But there is no way the dynamic range is only 6-7 stops. My older Xh-A1 is rated at 8 stops and the 7D easily out exposes it in video mode. And there is no way I could have got those desert shots I just posted with only 6-7 stops. And macro-blocking? Where is there any macro-blocking?

Also talk to some photo-heads... Dynamic range testing is VERY subjective. 6-7 stops on one test is 10-12 on another. The only real accurate way to get any results is with multiple cameras and a control variable... as in any test fallowing the scientific method. And since Zacuto's test is the only one that showed film on the test chart as well as the other cameras... then based on logic, I have no choice than to believe that test. It might not be 100% accurate, but it's much better than someone on a forum saying "my tests have shown 6 stops" or "here is a chart... it says 12 stops on it... see."

There's a lot nuts in the DSLR world, Phillip Bloom included. All the tests I done with my 7D was around 4-5 stops depending on iso settings when shooting video. Personally for me the 7D/5D's sensor is not worth Cinema glass when shooting video. Epic on the other hand is worth any lenses the look of the film calls for. I would rather go only PL lenses, but to each their own.

I agree with the cinema glass not being worth it... Why would it be? It's compressed and limited to 1080p... not really a need for glass that can resolve 2000+ lines. But 4-5 stops in your test? Come on. Be honest with yourself. That's just a lie (unless you're speaking of latitude). Have you seen what 4-5 stop footage looks like? That's like cell phone footage...

And what is the DSLR world? Why do people have to lumped into groups like this. I just shoot stuff on any camera that's in my budget... I don't subscribe to "worlds". I'll buy a Scarlet when it ships and shoot on Epic when it's in my budget... Does that mean I'll be in the "Red" world and I'll be forced to believe that any other camera only has 3-4 stops of dynamic range?

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Putting cinema glass to get pixels moving around on a static shot in halfHD is ridiculous and no famous DP or marketing stunt shoot-outs are going to change that.

You can count stops from here to the moon, if your eyes are working properly unbiased by what "someone said" you'll see the true DR hitting your retina. Not iPhone.

 

[Frank Glencairn]

Zacuto, Philip Bloom, and Halbut have all seen around 11 stops. As I remember, the great camera shootout (which measured the 7D at 11 stops) won an emmy...

If I remember that correctly they tested that 11 stops in still picture mode (which is kind of lame in my book, when you do a video/film camera shootout), not while recording video. So instead of a crappy compressed long GOP codec, they played with RAW.

Something you can´t do on a DSLR while shooting video.

...just saying

Frank

 

[Bryce O]

If I remember that correctly they tested that 11 stops in still picture mode (which is kind of lame in my book, when you do a video/film camera shootout), not while recording video. So instead of a crappy compressed long GOP codec, they played with RAW.

Something you can´t do on a DSLR while shooting video.

...just saying

Frank

No they did it video mode... They did another "RAW" test at the end. But the exposure tests were all video. I remember this same discussion coming up on DVX user.

 

[Peter Moretti]

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos5dmarkii/page25.asp

If no one wants to wade through all the writing, here's the skinny: In stills mode, a 5DMII has ~8.4 stops of DR when shooting JPEG. When shooting RAW and using Adobe's Camera RAW w/ default settings, you get ~10.4 stops of DR. When tweaking the settings you get ~11.1 stops. Note that the these gained stops range from being generally color accurate to not color accurate at all.

That's in still mode. I can't believe the video mode has more DR. So saying 9 stops of DR for video is being generous, by any reasonable guess.

 

[RivaiC]

I cant believe this thread that has "glass" wording on it, so quickly turn into anything other than that, DR, Aliasing...etc

Mark, have you done any test on cinema vs still lenses comparison ? Chromatic Aberration, Resolution, Focus ? What is your opinion between the two

Rivai

 

[David M]

...and shooting ass monkey H264 with less dynamic range than Super8mm film ...

Considering that Kodak currently sells Vision3 200T/7213 and Vision3 500T/7219 in Super-8 format, one might reasonably ask exactly what you mean by that, since no matter how you slice it, there is no reason to expect the film's dynamic range would be influenced by er, how you slice it..... :banghead::banghead:

 

[Rick Darge]

and people call redusers fanboys? that shootout was a joke. sorry bud. they ALL are biased. have to disagree. I work with that shitty footage EVERY day on commercials and clients complain EVERY damn day with how little flexibility there is. (been awesome for our RED canvassing though)

As a STILL camera its terrific, but this is 2010... M-X blows it away... and its just the beginning. Hence the mass migration... and I'll bet you 5 grand that the 5D and 7D are the #1 camera for sale in 2011.

$2,500 versus $25,000 .. just sayin..

 

[Peter Moretti]

Considering that Kodak currently sells Vision3 200T/7213 and Vision3 500T/7219 in Super-8 format, one might reasonably ask exactly what you mean by that, since no matter how you slice it, there is no reason to expect the film's dynamic range would be influenced by er, how you slice it..... :banghead::banghead:

I thought when shooting Super-8 you want to be more careful to expose the shadows than you would when shooting 35mm. That's b/c when you blow up Super-8, the noise from the under exposed portion of the image can look pretty gnarly.

But I do understand your general point .

 

[andrewhake]

Bryce - I wasn't trying to start a thread about DSLR comparisons - and I have seen some cool stuff shot on DSLRs in spite of limitations. Maybe my "ass monkey" comment was a bit over the top - but I assure you - I can actually get more dynamic range on Super8mm - that is fact.

I was really just pointing out that I find it very ironic that lots of folks are putting cinema glass on DSLRs and meanwhile, as EPIC rolls out - you will see more and more people with AF still glass on EPIC.

We have several clients who have already asked us to carry a "complete, full line" of Canon AF glass for rental with EPIC.

I find that rather telling. Obviously, we all know the mechanical limitations of AF still lenses and cinema lenses are not going away - but you can see a desire for something .... "in-between" ... right?

Pretty soon they will just be asking for an ass monkey ^_^