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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

CineForm Officially Supports Red One

Thanks David,

when you say by default you mean that without add any command to the line the image is very close to redlog?(but adding the line you wrote it bacame red log ?)

1 more question:

In Premiere in the set active metadata panel we have 2 curve control encode and decode , how should we use it?

i mean if for example i want redspace i should set both to red space or just the decode?...I mean we should always set same kind of curve (encode and decode or just decode etc...?)

Thanks
 
Basically it is so close it isn't worth the worry, but those are the settings to use if you want to be precise.

We have de-coupled encoding and decoding curves. You only need to change decode curve, as the encode curve is usually correct for the source. We allow you to change the encode curve if for some reason it was originally incorrect. So for RedSpace we don't recommend using as an encode curve (although you can,) we feel Log 90/100 is much better for shadow preservation, yet RedSpace is an excellent decode curve. Wehn add the -dR switch that default the decode curve to RedSpace.
 
Thanks David

Got it,
I like the idea of have Red Log...

What about have the same visual look of the raw viewing mode of the Red Camera (which is not linear right?)
And what About linear?

Thanks

G
 
Humm, just got back from a long shoot and installed the latest Oct 8th prospect update. After a couple of days of rendering, (batch HD 444 1920*1080) my 200 plus shots turned into 25 shots - ie, many of the shots were duplicated in the final avi folder.

?

I had rendered many shots before this with no problem. I installed the latest beta on this site and had the same problem - many shots being duplicated with many shots being ignored in the same folder . Now I am testing it again with with the 3.4.2.180 version -And I'm still having the same problem. It appears after installing the Oct 8 Prospect HD version, the script for the HD 444 cannot batch process even a folder of 5 R3d shots without returning a folder of 5 duplicate avi shots.

???

Anyone experiencing the same problem?
 
Oh, I may have figured out what went wrong. I renamed the R3d files and included SPACES - and didn't follow the DOS renaming principle!
 
davidfortney said:
Oh, I may have figured out what went wrong. I renamed the R3d files and included SPACES - and didn't follow the DOS renaming principle!
Click to expand...

That wasn't right either. Apparently, you have to have one R3D file per folder in order for batch processing to work correctly.
 
I've haven't heard of any other similar report. Things to watch out for:
1) Prospect HD is only licensed for 4:2:2 encoding, so I gather you mean Prospect 4K -- it you are using PHD you need to use the 422 batch script otherwise you won't get any output.
2) If this a filenaming issue we want to know about it. Try this, In Start->Run put the command "dir /s /b yourR3Dpath > C:\mydir.txt" -- yourR3Dpath would be replaced with the directory you used in the R2CF script. Zip up and email the mydir.txt output file to me, dnewman at cineform. This will tell me with there is anything ambigious with your file naming.
 
David Newman said:
I've haven't heard of any other similar report. Things to watch out for:
1) Prospect HD is only licensed for 4:2:2 encoding, so I gather you mean Prospect 4K -- it you are using PHD you need to use the 422 batch script otherwise you won't get any output.
2) If this a filenaming issue we want to know about it. Try this, In Start->Run put the command "dir /s /b yourR3Dpath > C:\mydir.txt" -- yourR3Dpath would be replaced with the directory you used in the R2CF script. Zip up and email the mydir.txt output file to me, dnewman at cineform. This will tell me with there is anything ambigious with your file naming.
Click to expand...

This is error is very easy to replicate. Just put a few R3D files in one folder and run the 1920x1180 444 script in Prospect 4K. You will see that each of the resultant avi files are the same. Put the R3D files each in their own folder (with any name) and this error doesn't occur.

After I put all 200 plus R3D files in 200 plus separate folders, the encoding is working flawlessly.

Hope this helps.
 
David Newman said:
Basically it is so close it isn't worth the worry, but those are the settings to use if you want to be precise.

We have de-coupled encoding and decoding curves. You only need to change decode curve, as the encode curve is usually correct for the source. We allow you to change the encode curve if for some reason it was originally incorrect. So for RedSpace we don't recommend using as an encode curve (although you can,) we feel Log 90/100 is much better for shadow preservation, yet RedSpace is an excellent decode curve. Wehn add the -dR switch that default the decode curve to RedSpace.
Click to expand...


Thanks David

Got it,
I like the idea of have Red Log...

What about have the same visual look of the raw viewing mode of the Red Camera (which is not linear right?...is not Log....what is it that?)

And what About encode having linear?

Thanks

G
 
The camera is not linear in compressed form, that would be bad. All sensors are linear (pretty much), yet to store the data you want a curve like log or gamma curve. See this old blog post to learn why linear is bad for compression http://cineform.blogspot.com/2007/09/10-bit-log-vs-12-bit-linear.html While linear encode is not advisable (you can do it with -eg1.0, gamma of 1.0), yet there is nothing wrong with a linear decode. The log curve preserves the shadow detail through compression, then decode to whatever you need. Under Prospect 4K, you can set the decode curve to linear, or add the switch -dG1.0. I don't see any advantage in seeing linear data as the default decode form, other than for effects work.
 
thanks David,

2 more things:

-would You suggest to go back ho linear before start the grading ? I mean in color grading software?

-What about the Raw viewing mode or the Sdi out of the RED camera?What kind of value have? Can we encode using that look?

Thanks

G
 
1) No, I would never suggest linear for grading (a good colorist will be able to work with any curve.)
2) The output of RED is user setable to REC709 and RedSpace etc, not a RAW feed but a developed one. You can you that, but it is not more a RAW mode than any other curve. Curves are not really destructive, they are more like a viewer LUT.
 
Thanks David

Mmm...so the Raw viewing mode it's kind of a flat curve that show all the latitude...right?

Do you know the value of that to have that in cineform codec?
Honestly i don't like RedSpace ...and i think could be cool have the same image as a starting point for post that look like the same on ei saw on set ("""RAW""")

An yes i understand that this curves are more or less like LUT...

If you have to choose , in your opinion what is the best way o encode in Cineform preserving all the possible 12 bit data from Red ?

I mean , I think RedLog should be the best value representation in a log space of the 12 bit linear from the sensor keeping everything?


Thanks

G
 
For some reason CS4 not recognizing Prospect or the other way around.
Installing CS4 doesn't overwrite CS3 but installs a seperate copy, whereas I then need to copy the ALL the third party plugins from CS3 folder over to
CS4.

For Prospect 4k, I unistalled it, reinstalled, but still heads to CS3 and not CS4.

So, is there a way to use Prospect in both CS3 and 4, or do I need to unistall and delete all CS3 files, then reinstall Prospect?
 
sotty, I had the same issue a couple of days ago and David N. wrote to say that CS4 does not yet support Prospect (and many other 3rd party plug-ins) but will do so in the coming weeks.

David
 
David W - that's true. Slightly more specifically, early shipments of CS4 by Adobe don't contain the API code needed for third parties to hook into. This impacts all companies who tie into PPro in this manner - CineForm, Matrox, AJA, and Blackmagic to name a few.

Our understanding is that Adobe will begin shipping the API code in the second half of November. It is after this date that third parties can begin shipping support for CS4.

That said, the existing CS3 plug-ins will NOT work in CS4, even after Adobe begins shipping the API in mid-November. All companies will need to release new CS4-compatible software because of many changes Adobe has made to their SDK. CineForm's compatibility with CS4 will be approximately December.
 
If final output is 1080, is there a quality advantage to offlining the 1920x1080 HD444 batch files to link to the raw file prior to output? Because as of now I don't see any quality difference. Working with and outputting the batch 1080 seems fine to me.
 
sotty,

There would hardly every be any advantage in going to 4K RAW when you can online with CineForm 444 1080p. I certainly see little point in using CineForm 444 as an offline format. For offline use the Express files, they are fast and light, then online with either CineForm 444 or RAW. The times when RAW 4K has the edge (for 1080 output) is when you want to push into your frame a lot (more than 15-20%), then the oversampling of the 4K helps maintain a sharp image. I just wrote a blog entry related to this : http://cineform.blogspot.com/2008/10/oversampling.html
 
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