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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

CineForm Offers NEO 4K-Mac for Red Support (BETA)

2K 444 decodes around 60+fps on an 8 core PC (100+ on Quad i7), 45+fps with a 3D LUT and other Active Metadata. While FCP/QT is slower (Apple, what's up?), you should be about real-time under OS X with a speedy Mac. I could find the 17fps reference, so I'll let Craig comment.
 
One of the issues I forgot to mention was the difference in playback between 23.976 and 25 fps material. Oddly, QuickTime has a problem with the 23.98 source. My Macbook will play back 1080p CineForm RAW with metadata at 22 fps in QuickTime. With no metadata, only about 70% is needed for 25 fps.

I did some timing comparisons on the encode speed for both 444 2K and 444 1080p. As you may expect they were close to each other. The overall rate depends on what you are doing in the way of processing on the image. I timed a single clip converted on the 4-core machine. ReMaster will convert multiple clips at the same time, one for every pair of available cores.

With one clip converting, the overall transcode time from Red 4K to CF444 2K was 1.183 seconds per frame (0.84 fps:sad: ) The cpu was running at about 62% capacity. Of the required time, 0.91 seconds is required to decode the frame. The resize and encode requires 0.28 seconds - 3.5 fps per clip. The encode process alone is 0.047 seconds per frame (21 fps).
 
Mmm...So on OSX is still pretty slow...Even in FCP same results in playback?

Have you any hope for the near future to increase the playback speed in OSX?...I mean does the new Quad i7 that it seems to be the next CPU of the the Mac Pro will improve a lot performance on OSX?



Thanks

G
 
I did some new test on m Quad core 2.66:

it's really strange because at 1920x1080 444 I can get 24fps easily (maybe more), but at 2K only 12fps ...And the Cpu is not at 100%...(as craig said due to QT )

Encoding From 4k R3D Footage:
444-Film1-2K (2.35fps)
444-1920x1080-Film1 (1fps)
RAW-4K-Film1 (1fps)

Please tell me that the new quad i7 will improve speed...

G
 
The i7 should help this. We can use all the cores so our time will drop. More important is the faster memory architecture throughout the system.

Just for fun, try some 25 fps material.

Your encode time look about right. Remember that when encoding 1920x1080 444 the ReMaster preset has the decode at "Auto". For this size and resolution it will decode at full 4K and then scale to 1920x1080. It looks like your 2K 444 is decoding at half resolution.
 
CraigDavidson said:
It looks like your 2K 444 is decoding at half resolution.
Click to expand...

Which should be half...Right ?I mean to have 2k 444 from 4K i should set half Res...

PS :But at this moment , waiting for the i7 )make sense only encode to Full HD....

PSS:does a Kona or Finalcut help in the Playback?

Thanks

G
 
Gabriele Turchi said:
Which should be?...Right ?I mean to have 2k 444 from 4K i should set half Res...

PS :But at this moment , waiting for the i7 )make sense only encode to Full HD....

PSS:does a Kona or Finalcut help in the Playback?

Thanks

G
Click to expand...

I'll let David answer the resolution question. I have the old fuzzy monitor so can't tell that easily. The math says that a Lanczos resampling of the image to reduce the size, event just scaling from 4K to 2K will produce less artifacts than a decode to 2K from the source.

Finalcut makes playback worse, at least on our setup. We have optimized the 1920x1080 format to encourage FCP to request 422 format on playback. This is the format it prefers, and produces more consistent color. On our system it then goes away for up to 30 milliseconds before requesting the next frame.

I'm waiting for the 8-core i7 (16 virtual cores). Apple needs that as the MacPro to leapfrog all the PCs that now are shipping with quad core i7's.
 
CraigDavidson said:
I'll let David answer the resolution question. I have the old fuzzy monitor so can't tell that easily. The math says that a Lanczos resampling of the image to reduce the size, event just scaling from 4K to 2K will produce less artifacts than a decode to 2K from the source.
Click to expand...

Mmm...David?

CraigDavidson said:
Finalcut makes playback worse, at least on our setup. We have optimized the 1920x1080 format to encourage FCP to request 422 format on playback. This is the format it prefers, and produces more consistent color. On our system it then goes away for up to 30 milliseconds before requesting the next frame.
Click to expand...

This i really interesting...so you suggest to encode to 422 instead to 444 to use CF in Final Cut..

PS:does the Kona help?

CraigDavidson said:
I'm waiting for the 8-core i7 (16 virtual cores). Apple needs that as the MacPro to leapfrog all the PCs that now are shipping with quad core i7's.
Click to expand...

I hope that after the Macworld they will be out...


PSS:Guys, honestly i am still trying without Buying because of the performance...Can you confirm that the Trial version is complete and fast as the official version of Neo 4K?...I am asking because of a post from David tylor which sayd that with the build 66 version you rolled the Windows decoder performance enhancements into the Mac and than i said that the same update would be realased on Neo Player soon...And than someone else asked if Neo Player is going to be upgraded with that performance too...and he said near in the future...

So are we sure that using the last tryal version i am runng the best software performance?

Thanks

G
 
I bounced the decode size off David. When you decode at 4K, the decoder SDK and low pass filter gives you about 3K of resolution. I think if you do a search you will find someone else has verified this on the board. The scale to 2K results in a sharpening of the image. When you decode to 2K, it is as if you apply a blur filter since there is only about 1.5K of resolution.
 
Gabriele Turchi said:
I did some new test on m Quad core 2.66:

it's really strange because at 1920x1080 444 I can get 24fps easily (maybe more), but at 2K only 12fps ...And the Cpu is not at 100%...(as craig said due to QT )

Encoding From 4k R3D Footage:
444-Film1-2K (2.35fps)
444-1920x1080-Film1 (1fps)
RAW-4K-Film1 (1fps)

Please tell me that the new quad i7 will improve speed...

G
Click to expand...

Are you using a RAID system at all? or just internal drives?
 
We are using a 2-disk RAID 0 on the built-in controller. There is a huge difference in the performance between that and the boot disk. Also, in FCP it is a big help if it is set up to store temporary render files on the RAID.

Decode from R3D only uses 1.5MBytes per second, so RAID makes no difference.
 
Gabriele Turchi said:
I did some new test on m Quad core 2.66:

it's really strange because at 1920x1080 444 I can get 24fps easily (maybe more), but at 2K only 12fps ...And the Cpu is not at 100%...(as craig said due to QT )


G
Click to expand...

More test and actually i have noticed that in HD 1920x1080 if i apply metadata like whiter balance + matrix + color temp etc...the playback is fine...But If i apply Only a 3D LUT...The playback is only 12 fps...

Guys do something Please!

G
 
Guys from Cineform there is a supported playback by Kona now?

I am trying but i can't have playback..

Another Question: Cineform is P or PsF?

Thanks

G
 
Craig?

I am pretty sure that i have red in the past that you was going to support kona playback...

I can have an image out on my Kona LHe output , but during the playback the image remain a still image ...

Thanks

G
 
What about Blackmagic support. We already have a multibridge Pro.
can we have HD SDI output over Leopard or over XP. (bootcamp)?

thanks in advance...
 
We have not enabled HD-SDI output yet. That is on our short list to look at in the next few weeks however. We'll report back when we have some news.
 
David Please i am really want o chose Cineform for my workflow ..!!!!

But at least we need :
1)SDI Out from Kona
2)At least HD resolution with active metadata (including 3D Lt) and playback in realtime...
3)At least 15 fps HD resolution cineform 444 Encoding...

What do you think in terms of time that you need for this achievement?

Thanks

G
 
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