Cineform as a Tiered Partner

[Bruce Allen]

If you can find a Steinway for $1000, I need to spend more time hanging out with you. Maybe you can loan it to me while you deal with the Fazioli.

I was doing to ask you and Red. Since they're selling 4k cameras for super-low prices, with RedCine for free, I thought you or they might have leads on crazy deals in other creative tool segments, like pianos for example...

Darn, now my dreams are crushed.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[jbeale]

[...] Cineform did something illegal and pissed off RED [...]

Gentlemen. I understand that speculation has its place. When you making public accusations, I would like to hope that any statements are limited to demonstrable facts.

The relevant information in this case is contained in this (closed) thread, dating from January of this year. http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7735

I have not heard anyone at Red make a representation that Cineform has broken the law. Until such time, I believe it is not responsible for third parties to make any inference that they have.

I think Reduser is a very useful forum for exchanging information about the camera and the workflow. I also prefer to see Reduser kept at a professional level, and I hope others agree. Thanks!

John Beale
Beale Corner Productions
Mountain View, CA

 

[Jannard]

As soon as we finish the camera, we will work on a "Steinway-killer". Sounds like fun.

Jim

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

some user feedback

 

[number6]

As soon as we finish the camera, we will work on a "Steinway-killer". Sounds like fun.

Jim

Could you make it a roller piano? I don't think I have enough brain left to learn something else.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

i hope he means a redish "we kicked sony in the ass with our cams, we will kick them again with our 4k monitor and scarlet, but now we will kick the 100 000 USD DI app. in the ass"------

and yes i like that red made it possible to own a 4k cam, lenses and soon a MB.
And i would like it if red would revolutinize the software world too...redcine is reds appl. it can be a killer appl. too

 

[laguun]

As soon as we finish the camera, we will work on a "Steinway-killer". Sounds like fun.

Jim

can i hereby officially order #000001?

yorick

p.s.
sitting on an assorted collection of boesendorfers, steinways and yamahas, in the metaphorical as well non-metaphorical sense.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

As I already have a German Grand Piano, with which I'm very happy and of a quality and character which is totally unbeatable by anyone, a 3m totally restaurated Schiedemayer from the early 1900 era, I will say that the statement by mr Jannard is totally improbable and false. His so-called Steinway-killer will maximum deliver 8 halftones pr octave and be lacking in other fundamental ways (like overtones... Say no more).

My guess is that he'll maximum give us a Yamaha-killer



G

Gunleik

 

[Chris Parker]

holy shit people. can we let the folks at RED work on shit so they can deliver more cameras, fix the bugs, release new builds, produce Scarlet, give us their 4K delivery system, and maybe have a relaxing beer or two?

all else is just wasting their time, as they are not going to sway on this one. wait for the SDK, and stop whining. they got work to do.

for the record, i wish it was coming at NAB too, but hey, shit happens. you deal with it, and move on.

 

[Zach Hilton]

can we let the folks at RED work on shit so they can deliver more cameras, fix the bugs, release new builds, produce Scarlet, give us their 4K delivery system, and maybe have a relaxing beer or two?

all else is just wasting their time, as they are not going to sway on this one. wait for the SDK, and stop whining. they got work to do.

Amen!

 

[J. Eric Camp]

Wow, I have never seen a loyal customer base turn so putrid and ugly so quick.

The way I see it is there is one unflappable fact. We are all here because of Jim and the RED team. We are all in the field with these cameras or on this thread because of them. We all owe many of our thoughts and plans to the foundation that these men and women have created.

Are you frustrated that the 4k digital cinema camera that you bought for the price of a used SR2 didn't rocket you to the top of your towns industry?

Are you upset that the brand spank'n new 4K DIGITAL CINEMA CAMERA that you bought won't run on your (presumably) existing (and possible pro-sumer) edit suite?

Has the realization not sunk in that you and I are lucky enough to be participating in (what is essentially) an open beta testing for the future of digital cinema and thusly the future of motion picture imaging?

Everyone keeps expecting this camera to play the same games and dance the same dance as the digital camera they intend to replace it with.

"Well my HVX would work with *insert platform here* so I don't understand why just a few months into implimentaion you guys can't have your 4K DIGITAL CINEMA CAMERA'S workflow the way I want it."

Many people keep mention how "film is dead," and "red beats film" and "film cameras will be in a museum."

So deep down somewhere inside you understand the level that RED is playing at. Just out of curiosity when you shot film, you then just edited that on your *insert platform here*? Oh wait no you had to send it to a lab and have it converted. Then sent your edl back and had to have the place that could handle your footage do a conform.

Obviously that is not the future. But considering that is how it has been done for almost 100 years, and considering RED is still hot out of the oven, (so hot the camera is still going through radical firmware changes) the complainers sound a bit whinny and ungrateful to me.

If Jim/RED just starts throwing current code, firmware etc around to random vendors, where is the quality control on making sure they stay current with the new builds as it progresses? They will get halfway through figuring it out before they learn they need to start over. Or worse yet they will release a tool, that YOU will rely on when you plan a production only to find it to leave you wanting and in a dire situation.

No you want the reality. The reality is that if Jim was smart and sane, none of us would have what we have. Be grateful that we are so involved with the process. When was the last time you got to tell the head of sony that you want his camera to make babies with *insert platform*?

I find it offensive that many people will praise Jim and red all day, but the second that he/they say one little thing that you find disappointing you start to question his integrity, ethics, word and business practices.

If anyone was foolish enough to finance their RED verses their house and now need to be able to cut on their Gateway to repay their mortgage... well...
Thats to bad.

All things will come. Well all things that can and should.

-e-

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

Wow, I have never seen a loyal customer base turn so putrid and ugly so quick.

The way I see it is there is one unflappable fact. We are all here because of Jim and the RED team. We are all in the field with these cameras or on this thread because of them. We all owe many of our thoughts and plans to the foundation that these men and women have created.

Are you frustrated that the 4k digital cinema camera that you bought for the price of a used SR2 didn't rocket you to the top of your towns industry?

Are you upset that the brand spank'n new 4K DIGITAL CINEMA CAMERA that you bought won't run on your (presumably) existing (and possible pro-sumer) edit suite?

Has the realization not sunk in that you and I are lucky enough to be participating in (what is essentially) an open beta testing for the future of digital cinema and thusly the future of motion picture imaging?

Everyone keeps expecting this camera to play the same games and dance the same dance as the digital camera they intend to replace it with.

"Well my HVX would work with *insert platform here* so I don't understand why just a few months into implimentaion you guys can't have your 4K DIGITAL CINEMA CAMERA'S workflow the way I want it."

Many people keep mention how "film is dead," and "red beats film" and "film cameras will be in a museum."

So deep down somewhere inside you understand the level that RED is playing at. Just out of curiosity when you shot film, you then just edited that on your *insert platform here*? Oh wait no you had to send it to a lab and have it converted. Then sent your edl back and had to have the place that could handle your footage do a conform.

Obviously that is not the future. But considering that is how it has been done for almost 100 years, and considering RED is still hot out of the oven, (so hot the camera is still going through radical firmware changes) the complainers sound a bit whinny and ungrateful to me.

If Jim/RED just starts throwing current code, firmware etc around to random vendors, where is the quality control on making sure they stay current with the new builds as it progresses? They will get halfway through figuring it out before they learn they need to start over. Or worse yet they will release a tool, that YOU will rely on when you plan a production only to find it to leave you wanting and in a dire situation.

No you want the reality. The reality is that if Jim was smart and sane, none of us would have what we have. Be grateful that we are so involved with the process. When was the last time you got to tell the head of sony that you want his camera to make babies with *insert platform*?

I find it offensive that many people will praise Jim and red all day, but the second that he/they say one little thing that you find disappointing you start to question his integrity, ethics, word and business practices.

If anyone was foolish enough to finance their RED verses their house and now need to be able to cut on their Gateway to repay their mortgage... well...
Thats to bad.

All things will come. Well all things that can and should.

-e-

I don't think you are giving some of these people the proper credit. Be careful to lump everyone into the same situation.

This is a complex issue, one post, from anyone, can hardly hope to sum up the situation.

Jay

 

[Eddie]

plain silly... The red team can and have defended their views very well, and I don´t think they need anyone to "rescue" them from questions and criticisms. This is all just about a group of red owners and reservation-holders (myself included) who got caught between two chairs, because we believed a cheap PC workflow would be available faster than it will be.
And then off course some frustration build up around certain exclusive agreements, which we fear might slow things down further. But thats about it...
I really don´mt see any reason to play the "protect and serve" on this meagre basis.

 

[J. Eric Camp]

Okay fair enough.

I admit that:

1) Many, many people do not fall into the "whiney idiot" category and have simply expressed dismay and frustration.

2) My post hardly encapsulates the issue.

3) Many people feel that they were told they would have a workflow on the platform they want, during a timeframe for a price range.

My initial reaction was not meant to "lump" everyone into my criticism and I am sorry my choice of language indicated as much. As this thread is 22 pages long and the original thread was something like 16, I was reacting to a select few who lambasted RED and Jim. Accused them of harsh indecencies and questioned their ethics.

As far as a "protect and serve" mentality. So people are allowed to voice their dismay and criticism but if I have a counter point perspective, voicing it is suspect? Again, there are plenty of rational people here who are simply participating in an open discussion about the expansion and and integration of RED. Their concerns, criticism and viewpoints are entirely valid.

I just felt that some posts/people were quick to attack the company and people that brought us all here.
-e-

 

[laguun]

feedback from reduser.net has been giving red many good, even important, inspirations and allowed them optimizing their offer quite a bit.

the problems discussed here however, are different from the issues with the camera. the camera is awesome, and if you know how to handle it and surpass/outmanouever its limitations, its certainly one of the best moving image camera ever done.

potproduction however is highly problematic for a large group of reds customers, be it that they have good solutions in house for $$$.$$$ which they cant use (we fall into that category), arent able or willing to spend a 50-75K on a windows online and see the online option of cineform (especially cineform customers), are afraid that red is heading in the wrong direction with a wrong strategy, need to support partnerrs who have "bad" workflows as avid, quantel, iridas, discreet, dvs etc etc.

red was planning to address many of these issues this nab by opening the codec, but had to delay this software, therefore many people have to alter their planning or are getting nervous if politics in the background would block them - its logical that they state this. jim explained that there are no hidden agendas or background politics delaying the release of SDK or open redcode codec, but only lack of ressources/time.

and anyhow, at NAB many new 4K solutions, hard as software, will be presented, including some pretty impressive new 4k hardwares from different manufacturers, and i dare to say that there will be some products (not only from red) which will will be pretty unexpected surprises to many people.

our main concern is to get an open redcode and sdk as soon as possible, in order to have competition in the post for one of the in our humble opinion most advanced motion picture cameras ever made.

 

[J. Eric Camp]

I agree absolutely with you Laguun.

You are a prime example of a rational, concerned contributer to this topic.

 

[number6]

This is all old news... the main concern now is "Who is Tex and why did he pull Jarred's finger?!!!"

 

[mezmo]

Well, that was ugly.
But interesting.
Mezmo

 

[mezmo]

The thread I mean.
Not Jarred's finger.
Mezmo