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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Cineform as a Tiered Partner

CrewPix.com said:
Makes perfect sense.

Now how do you justify locking out the hacker-types who want to make your camera work for them and ask for no support whatsoever from Red?
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Isn't that an oxymoron?
Opening up things for hackers so they have nothing to hack?
What kind of pansy hacker are you?


I believe the sdk is for non hacker types to develop legitimate tools.
Red has no reason I can think of to support tools that only one person
will use.
 
Eddie said:
Thats the reason everybody is bitchin about cineform/adobe not being let in, deanan...

They have the same aggressive price/performance attitude RED is imposing on the industry
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I talked to my high level contact at Adobe the other day about this and they said they never talked to Red about support. Red contacted them. That speaks volumes to me about Red's efforts to expand support.

Cineform hacked Red's shi and in my book that's not cool. I see no reason for RED to ever trust a partner that has already proven their dishonesty. There are legitimate ways for companies to do business. Hacking is not a legitimate business practice. Anyone seeking to work with Cineform in future only needs to look at this as an example of very untrustworthy behavior. Could you even trust cineform to respect an NDA or with confidential information?
 
Reduser is something most of us go to an a daily basis, at the end of, or during, a hard day's work, to sort of dissipate tension, or "chillax" with the ever increasing information about this wondrous tool that is RED. Even now, as I sip my Sunday afternoon Bloody Mary, I am here sitting behind my computer surfing the forum instead of doing one of many other things I could be doing. Now, imagine what it is for Jim, Jarred and the rest of the crew when they come to the forum only to have to punch, scratch, bite and slap their way out of a zillion potentially flammable situations (many of them instigated by people who'll never shoot anything on RED, or anything else for that matter, but who still get their share of attention due to the open democracy platform this forum is based on) when, to whatever reasonable extent and whether they are right or wrong, they have either made their needs and inttentions clear a million times before OR they don't really own anybody a darn explanation. Come on people, lighten up and make a conscious effort to add only relevant arguments to this forum.

I am, indeed, one of those people who lives and swears by Adobe products and who has made as nice, rewarding, and confortable a living using exclusively those tools as I ever dreamed of, and who knows what an awesome tool the Cineform codec is for the PC, a truly MAGICAL codec, but as I was never willing or could afford to be, a pioneer or a trailblazer, I waited a long enough time to place my RED reservation, at a point where I would not have to have to live on the bleeding edge and have to figure out a way to make this amazing thing work on a daily basis. I didn't have the "cojones" or the need to be among the first believers, so now I wait for RED to be integrated with my favorite apps, and hope that it happens sooner rather than later, but while I may dislike how long this is taking, I won't do myself the disservice of disrespecting Jim & Co. by accusing them of nonsensical conspiracy ploys.
 
reality said:
Cineform hacked Red's shi and in my book that's not cool. I see no reason for RED to ever trust a partner that has already proven their dishonesty.
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I think you forget that cineforms whole "raison d´etre" is to improve other manufacturers (adobe, microsoft, autodesk/discreet) shortcomings or to add functions. They enhanced -many- core functions in Adobes product.

reality said:
There are legitimate ways for companies to do business. Hacking is not a legitimate business practice. Anyone seeking to work with Cineform in future only needs to look at this as an example of very untrustworthy behavior.
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cineform reverse engineered redcode, pretty fast, and pulled the offered quite fast and functional -free- tool they gave the community when red asked them. Your logic makes no sense at all, as iblooms tools, offhollywood, avid/metacheater etc -all- are hacks and are useful tools used every day.

reality said:
Could you even trust cineform to respect an NDA or with confidential information?
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100%. Many, even much larger, corporations as Adobe do.
 
reality said:
Cineform hacked Red's shi and in my book that's not cool. I see no reason for RED to ever trust a partner that has already proven their dishonesty.
Click to expand...

Oh come on. Cineform didn't sign anything with anybody and smaller software companies "hack" solutions ALL THE TIME. It's what they do. Find a niche problem and solve it. So Ian Bloom's a crook too? And OffHollywood?

Your assertion is ludicrous. Hell... he posted the work right here on the board to let everyone know what he was up to.
 
Eddie said:
Thats the reason everybody is bitchin about cineform/adobe not being let in, deanan...

They have the same aggressive price/performance attitude RED is imposing on the industry
Click to expand...

I talked to my high level contact at Adobe the other day about this and they said they never talked to Red about support. Red contacted them. That speaks volumes to me about Red's efforts to expand support.

Cineform hacked Red's shi and in my book that's not cool. I see no reason for RED to ever trust a partner that has already proven their dishonesty. There are legitimate ways for companies to do business. Hacking is not a legitimate business practice. Anyone seeking to work with Cineform in future only needs to look at this as an example of very untrustworthy behavior. Could you even trust cineform to respect an NDA or with confidential information?
 
reality said:
I talked to my high level contact at Adobe the other day about this and they said they never talked to Red about support. Red contacted them. That speaks volumes to me about Red's efforts to expand support.

Cineform hacked Red's shi and in my book that's not cool. I see no reason for RED to ever trust a partner that has already proven their dishonesty. There are legitimate ways for companies to do business. Hacking is not a legitimate business practice. Anyone seeking to work with Cineform in future only needs to look at this as an example of very untrustworthy behavior. Could you even trust cineform to respect an NDA or with confidential information?
Click to expand...

argh! an anomaly in the matrix. mr. smith, i presume?
 
I didn’t see or here on this forum that CineForm hacked RED RAW. It was open as any RAW out there is open. He just used it and started to put it in to his product. Jim reminded David that he should wait till SDK is released (for the reason) and it is what he is doing, he is waiting now.

I know some of you are too busy to follow closely what is said and posted on this forum and thus the confusion. We had most recent example with 15mm to 19mm rods mixup. If I am not sure of something then I just ask, all is good and progressing in the right direction, I guess I will have another cool beer.
 
joelnet said:
smaller software companies "hack" solutions ALL THE TIME. It's what they do. Find a niche problem and solve it. So Ian Bloom's a crook too? And OffHollywood?
Click to expand...

Joelnet, it has to be carefully interpreted what hacking means? Reverse engineering software is typically not allowed in US by software licenses. I do not know if reverse engineering laws apply to data as stored in a file format such as R3D. Even if data is protected by revers engineering, it will be up to Red what what does their license say about it.

Apple has openly provided XML output for anybody to develop tools with it; in fact Apple encourages application development using their XML output, so Ian Bloom's noble effort is not in hacking category, and is perfectly legitimate as Apple allows it, and he reads in an XML format and outputs a text based file -- no issue here.

Don't know what OffHollywood is doing?
 
Jim, here is my suggestion...

have Big Jon put up a post-production workflow FAQ, similar to the one he has regarding shipping questions, with the most up-to-date information. Lock it. Refer users to it. Update as developments develop. I think this discussion pretty much has all the answers in it, but I'm certain that this discussion will be recycled ad nauseaum until the workflow is as good as the camera is proving to be (got mine fully functional this morning, and it is super sweety sweet!)...

We do need a workflow of equal genius with the camera, and it's just not there yet...if you tell me that it is all part of the patience required with the ongoing process, then that is good enough for me, at the moment...

But you're going to have a lot of people walking into the middle of this narrative with the exact same questions, recycling this conversation over and over again. Why not produce a post- workflow FAQ with all of the info that has been unveiled over the past week and have it collated and accessible? It is getting harder and harder to filter the noise and find the reliable information...

...and save yourself from popping too many Alka-Seltzers...

(do they even make alka-seltzer anymore? or am i just old?)
 
Cineform: The Curse of the Vampire Codec
It'll suck the life out of any forum!


(that's a joke guys)
 
luki said:
A month ago, you knew of -zero- SCRATCH systems in Germany. Now you know of less than 10. Give it a few more months, and you might know of less than 100... ;)

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA
Click to expand...
I doubt that you will be able to sell more than 20-30 systems within the next 12 months with the current pricing in Germany - thats including one potential system here in Q3/2008.

I honestly wish you good luck, but i would be careful with forecast in these numbers.

Actually, I know of 6 paying customers iirc you have in germany after 3(?) years of scratch. I raised that to 10 as i certainly dont know all.

discreet, avid and others offer a list of houses offering there systems here in germany btw. Its good for producers.
 
Joofa said:
it has to be carefully interpreted what hacking means
Click to expand...

I was just using the word back to the original poster. I don't see any cops pulling up to the front door of Cineform. As a developer I'm pretty sure David has a handle on how far he can go to make something work. And RED asked him to stop and he did. Doesn't sound like typical "crook that you can't trust" behavior to me.
 
Ariana said:
Thank you Cineform. Thank you for screwing it up for the rest of us just so you could be smart asses and show off your hacking talents.
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Please stop insulting people in subjects you are not properly versed in. This was cruel and offbase.

Something I have been quilty of in the past, but sadly, that does not excuse you from it.

Jay
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Please stop insulting people in subjects you are not properly versed in.
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I'm starting to think she's trying to steal Jim from his girl. I just love how these people show up with 12 posts and no camera and explain to guys who have been following RED for over 2 years, put their money down, participated in all the development discussions and then bought the camera how the world around here works.

But you gotta love the attitude. :red_bandana:
 
Jannard said:
I posted the answer to this, but many seemed more interested to build a conspiracy theory instead of listening.

We had expected that "at or around NAB" (my exact words) we would be able to put out a public SDK. But the delays in image enhancements, including splitting them from Build 15 into Build 16, has delayed that event.

Jim
Click to expand...

Sorry Jim.. I guess this was mostly me...

Jay
 
Deanan said:
I am referring to everyone else but apple and assimilate who sat on their hands when the opportunity was wide open.
(edited for clarity :)
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Actually, I have it on good authority that one of those companies IS going to offer a "RED" package that will be serious below normal cost.

When they are allow to support r3d

:)

Just thought I woudl share the good news.

Jay
 
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