Cineform as a Tiered Partner

[Finner]

...not waiting for the SDK - and i believe that is Jims problem

There are many not waiting. There is momentum building on underground solutions all over the place. The market dictates what products are created and the market needs reasonably priced solutions that are not being provided by Apple or Assimilate so in response this is all being pushed underground. Word is programing workable systems is not some difficult rocket science thing to do so multiple black market options are being developing and provided.

The closed deals and limited release date information are fueling this underground movement and for better or worse it appears that this will be the route choosen by many.

 

[laguun]

We will support companies like Cineform, Avid, Adobe, Baselight, Quantel and others when we are done. This seems pretty easy to understand.

Do "others" include DVS and iridas?
Or generally speaking, any solid company which approaches red?

What is the problem here? ... Why the noise?
Jim

Uncertainty, the problems in the current OSX and windows and the wish for more powerful, faster and/or better value products are giving many people headaches.

And the situation that owners of a red cant simply involve any 3hrd party company who isnt expert in red reduces the cameras acceptance generally.

 

[Deanan]

Do "others" include DVS and iridas?
Or generally speaking, any solid company which approaches red?

Yes. Others means guys like DVS.

 

[Brent J. Craig]

There are many not waiting. There is momentum building on underground solutions all over the place.

...and then they started encrypting stuff...

I wish they could have found a way to honor their exclusive deals within the company without actively preventing the community from building themselves the tools they need.

"We honored our commitments but those meddling kids reverse-engineered our code." Nice and blameless. Adding encryption to anything has now taken away that deniability. The keys to the kingdom, indeed.

 

[Ariana]

...and then they started encrypting stuff...

I wish they could have found a way to honor their exclusive deals within the company without actively preventing the community from building themselves the tools they need.

"We honored our commitments but those meddling kids reverse-engineered our code." Nice and blameless. Adding encryption to anything has now taken away that deniability. The keys to the kingdom, indeed.

Thank you Cineform. Thank you for screwing it up for the rest of us just so you could be smart asses and show off your hacking talents.

 

[Eddie]

Finner, you are kidding right... That would be hilarious if people started prowling around on piratebay.com in order to get a good PC transcode.
But you are right about the incentive, since the "hacking indies" would then be onlining in a 4K compressed RAW format before the big guys... LOL

 

[reality]

...and then they started encrypting stuff...
.

Did I miss something?

I shot with build 15 and opened it up with the old version of redalert from many months ago on my laptop and it opened fine. What gives? How can they encrypt stuff and still have it work in the old software?

 

[Finner]

I wish they could have found a way to honor their exclusive deals within the company without actively preventing the community from building themselves the tools they need.

I wish the exclusive partners could have found a way to supply the tools that were needed.

 

[Finner]

Thank you Cineform. Thank you for screwing it up for the rest of us just so you could be smart asses and show off your hacking talents.

You really have no clue what you are talking about do you?

 

[Jannard]

...and then they started encrypting stuff...

I wish they could have found a way to honor their exclusive deals within the company without actively preventing the community from building themselves the tools they need.

"We honored our commitments but those meddling kids reverse-engineered our code." Nice and blameless. Adding encryption to anything has now taken away that deniability. The keys to the kingdom, indeed.

Encryption was only introduced to stop (or at least slow up) development of tools that would not be in the best interests of our customers. If someone develops a toolset now, and our customer uses it, how frustrated will he be when it no longer works? We are getting these calls now with Build 15. It forces the industry to wait until we are done. Nothing more. We are helping companies "keep their shirt on". When we are done, we open up. Pretty easy to understand.

Jim

 

[reality]

Since all this changes soon with the sdk they're releasing we are all beating a dead horse a million times over.

 

[Finner]

Finner, you are kidding right... That would be hilarious if people started prowling around on piratebay.com in order to get a good PC transcode.
But you are right about the incentive, since the "hacking indies" would then be onlining in a 4K compressed RAW format before the big guys... LOL

Demand is there, supply is not. It's quite clear where things will head.

Please note I am not saying this is a good option. I am just stating IMO what I believe will happen.

I would not of thought any of this would have come about if the partners would have produced products that met the majority of customers needs.

 

[Jason Laramy]

I wonder if Jim feels like Steve Jobs right now - The same thing happened with the Iphone -

The difference is - if someone screws up a phone with a hacked software - its $300 down the drain - if someone screws up a R3D file with a hacked software - it could be millions of dollars of lost shots down the drain.

- for the record; i am happy to wait -

 

[Jannard]

Demand is there, supply is not. It's quite clear where things will head.

Please note I am not saying this is a good option. I am just stating IMO what I believe will happen.

I would not of thought any of this would have come about if the partners would have produced products that met the majority of customers needs.

What part of our plan do you not like?

1. That we made a deal with 2 partners over a year ago?
2. That we need others to wait for finished code to build from?
3. That we plan on opening up to all when we are finished?

Just curious. Remember, if you pick #1, it becomes would'a, could'a, should'a. 20/20 hindsight.

Jim

 

[Deanan]

Demand is there, supply is not.

Demand has nothing to do with feasibility. Firmware is changing so fast that it's impossible to keep the current partners and our internal tools up do date as fast as firmware. If we were to have 10 more tools out there with hacked support and professionals depending them, then the number of problems escalate out of control. That would mean more frustration for everyone while satisfying the desires of a few.

The look files are encrypted because the look files will be changing dramatically from their current state until the xml format is defined.
It's simply a binary format until we have a defined public format.

 

[laguun]

Thank you Cineform. Thank you for screwing it up for the rest of us just so you could be smart asses and show off your hacking talents.

Ariana, you are completly wrong.

The tools cineform delivered for 013 were extremly fast and high quality and addressed many need of many owners of red cameras worldwide which havent be addressed by the 2 only partners allowed to work with redcode so far.

That red didnt support cineform at once and wants to prevent all other manufacturers besides these two from offering integration and products for the camera in order to comply to their contratcs with Apple and Assimilate is something many customers of red are quite unhappy with - and that is certainly not cineforms decision.

users want a fast and stable redline for windows, and the cineform tool offered pretty much exactly that -and- was free, and a support for -fast- raw editing and cineform offers exactly that.

 

[Eddie]

I think part of the problem is that scratch is sitting between two "seats". On the one hand they can´t lower prices out of loyalty to their earlier customers, but on the otherhand they can´t reallyget all that many new ones, since there is no way average-joe with his new Dreamcam is gonna spend 50.000$ on an editing suite... It´s software for gods sake, nobody pays more than 1999$ for that nowadays, right?
But I am sure scratch would sell more than 25 times as much software if it was priced at 1999$
Lesson... Red tiered partners should price accordingly.
It would have been great if we were now enjoying a fair race between FCP and Adobe. I think that would have guarenteed af fast pace of improvements and development.

 

[laguun]

What part of our plan do you not like?

1. That we made a deal with 2 partners over a year ago?
2. That we need others to wait for finished code to build from?
3. That we plan on opening up to all when we are finished?

Just curious. Remember, if you pick #1, it becomes would'a, could'a, should'a. 20/20 hindsight.

Jim

i think people would be -much- more relaxed if they would a) know a rough estimate until stage 3) is reached and b) that there will be competition among the postmanufacturers without a headstart for only 2 after phase 1) and 2) are finished.

I think i am in the same boat as many here, we are pretty unsure how to plan $$$.$$$ investments in post and thats quite some money to us.

 

[Jannard]

One thing needs to be pointed out here... when we were still a scam, we rang the bell and only two companies answered. All others had absolutely no interest in supplying support for RED.

Just so you know...

Jim

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

the ugly fat girl turned into a sexy hot chiqua