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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Cineform as a Tiered Partner

reality said:
The industry is small and people talk. Not just Adobe but others too. There's not alot of respect out there for cineform.
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Most rumors are based on ignorance. You clearly have that covered.
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Would you please stop using this comeback.. I'm getting sick of hearing it. Look at his number man.. he's friggin 137. It was too early then to know these problems with REDCine would be going on this long.

THAT'S why he took delivery. And if you recall, 4 months ago Jim said this problem would be over at NAB '07. A position that was CHANGED early this week.

THAT'S WHY HE TOOK DELIVERY.

Sorry if I'm snapping but....
Jesus..... If I had a nickel everytime I heard this comeback.

Just give the guy some credit.. No better yet, how about giving them ALL some credit. No one knew PC support would be this slow.

Jay

Ok jay.. Breath... In .... Out.... in .... Out.. Checking pulse...:umm:
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Thank you, Jay. What you said.

-Thor
 
reality said:
If I had nickel for everytime you cineform fanboys went on hysterical rants about how cineform is so great and must be supported... can you say annoying?

Riddle me this: why would dobe have turned down cineforms attempts to get bought if cineform was so effin fantastic? Face it, cineform is for the lunatic fringe.
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Reality,

David Newman and David Taylor (from Cineform) are on this board quite often. I'm looking forward to their thoughts on this.

-Thor
 
Thor Wixom said:
Thank you, Jay. What you said.

-Thor
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Thor, you bought very early on from a new cameras company and the first generation model. Why is it a surprise that not everything is exactly the way you want it. You're an early adopter and those are the realities of being on the bleeding edge. Should demand BitJazz support over and over and over again because I use it.
 
Thor Wixom said:
Reality,

David Newman and David Taylor (from Cineform) are on this board quite often. I'm looking forward to their thoughts on this.

-Thor
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I'd like to hear their version also. I'd also like to know why the aren't in any other cameras besides SI. Why not dalsa or arri or phantom?
 
reality said:
Thor, you bought very early on from a new cameras company and the first generation model. Why is it a surprise that not everything is exactly the way you want it. You're an early adopter and those are the realities of being on the bleeding edge. Should demand BitJazz support over and over and over again because I use it.
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Don't you listen? At NAB 2006, RED said they would have a workflow for both PC and Mac. Then at NAB 2007 it became clear that Apple would get advantages. Now, PC people still don't have a decent workflow. I don't care so much, because I don't have a camera anyway, but you can't attack these people when they just made their purchase when they were being assured that they would have a workflow.
 
Just to bring things back into perspective.. there is a workflow right now for Both PC and MAC. right now. has been for quite awhile.

Sure, for the PC its not the fastest workflow, and involves a Transcode, but there is a couple of workflows. It just doesn't fit everyone's desires yet.
 
I feel a bit like kelley... as in I ain´t gonna bitch no more.
If I had only trusted my good ears back at NAB 2007, when ted was all worked up, about his old colleagues at Apple promising native support in FCP and Color. Off course this meant, "apple gets an exclusive on native support for standard desktop computers, and around 6 month to market it." After that cineform can do their cineformRaw avi wrapper and us PC-Nerds can get to work. Until then, we will have to do what nerds do best, pizzas and World of Warcraft during conversion....
 
Thor Wixom said:
Reality,

David Newman and David Taylor (from Cineform) are on this board quite often. I'm looking forward to their thoughts on this.

-Thor
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That rumor is the first I've heard of it. Maybe they a confused with the real story that we once turned Apple down. CineForm doesn't want to get brought by anyone, we like our independence. Now we do license technology, and Adobe does a have license for using part of CineForm engine -- clearly they like us plenty enough. If you went to HD Expo 10 days ago, CineForm and Wafian (one of the others that licensed or invested in CineForm, along with names like Sony and Microsoft) were in the Adobe funded booth, no other companies were presented. So basically the source is wrong.

CineForm, embrassing the "lunatic fringe"; doesn't that speak to filmmakers in general. :)
 
Jarred Land said:
Just to bring things back into perspective.. there is a workflow right now for Both PC and MAC. right now. has been for quite awhile.

Sure, for the PC its not the fastest workflow, and involves a Transcode, but there is a couple of workflows. It just doesn't fit everyone's desires yet.
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Hi Jarred,

regarding the redcode workflow:
There is no 4K redcode online system on osx, as FCP cant keep up with the rgb color and resolution of red, reducing its quality.

There is no redcode offline or online editing on windows, and for a native redcode DI solution ~50.000 additional investment are required, even for posthouses with $.$$$.$$$ in existing DI hardware or software.

The non-redcode workflow is to complicated to be used by non-red experts out of the box. And it is slow for usual studios, can lead to human error, and renders the expertise of the worlds best avid editors, discreet vfx gurus and >99% of the top-class colorist/colortimers a second class knowhow for redcode workflow.

IMHO: These are the main problems many people are complaining about. Your camera, being one of the most elegant, innovative and clever motion picture cameras ever made, really deserves support for its workflow from the best postproduction companies and should allow the huge majority of the worlds most talented editors and colorist direct access to redcode. It would be different if Apple would support red in appropriate quality or assimilate would offer a product able to match your market-changing pricing.

cineform seems to be a solution for shortcomings in quality of the Apple redcode workflow and the non-red type pricing of assimilate, and there are many top-quality softwares many customers are pretty nervous to see supported.

I suppose that, if red would publish a basic timeline of the plans to solve the problematic workflow issues users worldwide have now, many customers would be able to relax. But while its great to have the mysterium inside the camera, it is pretty painful to have a mysterium in the postproduction and the investion planning.
 
Laguun.. there are many non-native workflows that exist right now. Yes.. they arn't easy, and they are time consuming, and to some a pain in the ass, much like working with Film.

Cineform will be a solution but its a somewhat slow transcode solution... Just like putting REDCODE into any other codec. Raw is the way to go.. specially considering the bandwidth saved.

RAW support is gonna get better. People just need to understand that REDCODE is still in the oven and needs to finish cooking before people can take out the knives and start digging in.
 
Jarred Land said:
Laguun.. there are many non-native workflows that exist right now. Yes.. they arn't easy, and they are time consuming, and to some a pain in the ass, much like working with Film.

Cineform will be a solution but its a somewhat slow transcode solution... Just like putting REDCODE into any other codec. Raw is the way to go.. specially considering the bandwidth saved.

RAW support is gonna get better. People just need to understand that REDCODE is still in the oven and needs to finish cooking before people can take out the knives and start digging in.
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Jarred,
r3d2dpx was fairly fast to kick a r3d to CF avi RAW or other wise, mutch faster than RedCine , and it didnt use the GPU.
 
Yes Salatar.. RedAlert (yeah i know its mac only) is a bit faster than Redcine right now to kick out transcoded files as well ( and doesn't use the GPU )
 
Jarred Land said:
Everything that needed to be said was said in that thread.. which is why it was closed.

Crewpix.. you seem to bitch alot, if you don't like it here, there are many other places you can go.

I always find it amusing when people complain about what happens here and how evil and deceitful RED ( or me ) are. I dont go walking into your house, sit on your couch and bitch about the color of your wallpaper then pee all over your windows, THEN yell at you for locking the door when i leave.
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some funny shit' here!!
 
Yes.. they arn't easy, and they are time consuming, and to some a pain in the ass, much like working with Film.
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Jared

I like you and respect you as I like and respect Red. But you have just summed up the work flow problems for many present and future owners. I know they will improve and I deeply hope NAB will offer new options.
 
Jarred Land said:
Yes Salatar.. RedAlert (yeah i know its mac only) is a bit faster than Redcine right now to kick out transcoded files as well ( and doesn't use the GPU )
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Salatar? That dick shows his ugly head again!!!! I remember when he swore he would never show up on REDUSER again. That guy has been banned from almost every forum I visit; Jarred cant you get a restraining order or something? He bashes RED and you everywhere:

http://www.vfxtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=61020&postcount=25

I am surprised Jim even sold him a RED; he is probably the most hated guy in the industry; the last guy you want to have a camera.
 
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