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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Cineform as a Tiered Partner

Qoute from Jay
IMHO: Premiere is far better suited for RED's resolution and bit depth
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Jay,
I like CS3. I bought it and returned it over his very issue. How is it working for you now?

With the delay in the SDK, I fear progress will be very slow. I hope I'm wrong.
 
If I load build 13 i can use Cineform.. 12 bit (or 16, I forget) 4:4:4 files. Almost as much range as a dpx file.. The color correct great.

I love it.. And YES they do play real time in premiere.

Jay
 
You guys.. Either you did not read my post, or you just ignored me.. (Would not be the first time).

Continue beating this dead horse into a 6ft hole, but the fact remains, you're not going to make any more of an impression than you already have.

They are doing what they can. Best thing to do now is sit back and watch the show.

Jay
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
DPX pipelines are great for some clients but file/clip based workflows are far more attractive to the vast majority of people I work with than frame based solutions.
Click to expand...

I was thinking like this as well, clips/files are better. Well what is the difference if clips are inside the file or inside the folder. I just drop the folders where I would drop the clips.
I new from the beginning that Apple is bit too big to deal with product that is in constant flux.
Lack of 12/16 bit and 4K support was big turn off for me.
Once I have heard "Assimilate", I jumped right away, small high performance company, Jim made excellent choice.

Well, now Luki is saying that they are just helping RED with REDCINE. I hope that it is substantial help.
 
Videodisc said:
When I try to open Redcine I get a:

Unsupported CPU: Missing SSE2 instructions...

Im running Dual AMD Athlon MP 1800+

If I am missing something please let me know.

Thanks
Frank
Click to expand...

Hey Frank, I think Bruce is right. The Athlon MP 1800+ was released seven years ago back in October 2001. Once more of the workflow is nailed down with Red, I think you definitely deserve an upgrade. Good position to be in actually, just wait until after NAB to buy.
 
Videodisc said:
When I try to open Redcine I get a:

Unsupported CPU: Missing SSE2 instructions...

Im running Dual AMD Athlon MP 1800+

If I am missing something please let me know.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're missing SSE2 instruction set ability. Throw that dinosaur in the trash and get something that's at least 5 years newer. I've actually go a rack full of dual AMD MP 1.2GHz to 1.6GHz (1800+). I had to retire them as render nodes a couple years ago because they're just so dog-slow and don't support any newer instruction sets. ...Don't work with many modern render pipelines. Anyway, not trying to be too cynical or harsh. It's just the way this computer stuff works, eh..
 
Andrew said:
Having 4K 12 bit RAW allows you to manipulate the output down
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You don't need to online at 4K to do that. You can offline at DV and conform from the 4K. I didn't say downrezzing from 4K isn't nice.

As far 8 bit vs. 10bit color correction - Ok I think there's a difference there. Final Cut does work in 10bit. Prores HQ is 10bit, right? But 12bit over 10bit? Now you're definitley heading into territory that is difficult for me to see. And I'm not really sure RED is truly delivering enough color data to make 12bit much more useful than 10bit at this point. If you get into compositing you're into another APP altogether and there's plenty of 12bit support to be found there.

Wait - you've got a 7 year old CPU?
 
joelnet said:
You don't need to online at 4K to do that. You can offline at DV and conform from the 4K. I didn't say downrezzing from 4K isn't nice.

As far 8 bit vs. 10bit color correction - Ok I think there's a difference there. Final Cut does work in 10bit. Prores HQ is 10bit, right? But 12bit over 10bit? Now you're definitley heading into territory that is difficult for me to see. And I'm not really sure RED is truly delivering enough color data to make 12bit much more useful than 10bit at this point. If you get into compositing you're into another APP altogether and there's plenty of 12bit support to be found there.

Wait - you've got a 7 year old CPU?
Click to expand...

No I have dual core 2.8GHz and NVIDIA 8700

As to the 10 bit log versus 12 bit linear, I agree small difference.
But 8 bit linear and 16 bit linear off the tif sequence, hey I see the difference on my old 32” screen.
It is not so much the final product difference since final output is usually 8 bit anyway, but the fact that I have extra 4 bit to work with makes a big difference.
Even extra 4 blank bits over original camera 12 bits in 16 bit TIF file is very useful, though not used in the input file but once you start working with the material soon you will see that you are using all 16 bits anyway.

Again, it is extremely difficult to work with 8 bits on IN, during and OUT, material.
You have to be pro with a lot of experience. Having extra few bits is giving me ability to push material further where before it was not possible at all.
 
" if i need to heavy CC or key, im back to uncompressed tiffs in redcine"

for general editing purposes with a CC applied - what if you CC in Red alert and then create the Proxies( in red alert) ... now when you drop the proxy into FCP it will see the CC proxy ...
 
luki said:
What are you trying to accomplish?
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Lucas,

I'm glad you asked...

I'm trying to accomplish an integration between two investments: $50k in a camera system, and roughly $30k in Windows / CS3 / Axio editing systems.

In other words, I'm trying to make a living! Just like you, just like everyone on this forum.

I'm not the only one who heard the words "open workflow" at NAB 2006, and that Windows workflows would follow Apple workflows by months... not years. I'm also not the only one who was dishearted at NAB 2007 when "Apple first" became "Apple only". You can argue this all you want, but at some point in the time line, "first" becomes "only". Two years is too long in my opinion.

My point is simply this... I hope Red will consider that at least a few of the early reservation holders were left with the impression that Windows workflows would follow months after, not years after the Apple workflows. I hope that in weighing this consideration, they will throw us a bone.

Maybe Red would allow a version of R3D2 to exist after the commitment to Apple expires, but before the SDK is released. It took David Newman 2 weeks to create the first version, how long would it take to repurpose it for Build 16? Of couse, all risks would have to be assumed by the camera owner / user / renter. I'm willing to assume those risks. I'm sure many others are as well, because a practical workflow (even with risks) is better than virtually no work flow at all.

This is a reasonable request.

-Thor Wixom
 
Hey Thor, why did you take delivery of the camera knowing the state of the workflow instead of waiting? Seems a bit weak to complain about it now.
 
reality said:
Hey Thor, why did you take delivery of the camera knowing the state of the workflow instead of waiting? Seems a bit weak to complain about it now.
Click to expand...

Would you please stop using this comeback.. I'm getting sick of hearing it. Look at his number man.. he's friggin 137. It was too early then to know these problems with REDCine would be going on this long.

THAT'S why he took delivery. And if you recall, 4 months ago Jim said this problem would be over at NAB '07. A position that was CHANGED early this week.

THAT'S WHY HE TOOK DELIVERY.

Sorry if I'm snapping but....
Jesus..... If I had a nickel everytime I heard this comeback.

Just give the guy some credit.. No better yet, how about giving them ALL some credit. No one knew PC support would be this slow.

Jay

Ok jay.. Breath... In .... Out.... in .... Out.. Checking pulse...:umm:
 
I have to agree with Thor. After NAB 08 they should allow a temporary version of cineform to exist. I know Jim made the argument that he didn't want customers to call and say "why isn't my cineform working with version 15"...but that customer would most likely not be calling if Cineform was allowed to constantly update their software... ;-)
We're not even asking RED to officially support Cineform after april...we're just asking to allow Cineform to provide tools at our own risk.... All we want is a decent PC workflow solution until the final workflow is established.... It's really too bad because the Camera is finally at a good stage and we love filming with it....it's the post production that is weak is making us hold back ....
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Sorry if I'm snapping but....
Jesus..... If I had a nickel everytime I heard this comeback.
Click to expand...

If I had nickel for everytime you cineform fanboys went on hysterical rants about how cineform is so great and must be supported... can you say annoying?

Riddle me this: why would dobe have turned down cineforms attempts to get bought if cineform was so effin fantastic? Face it, cineform is for the lunatic fringe.
 
reality sucks even more

edit: Oh, and this juicy gossip about Cineform being bounced by Adobe, do you have some more insides?
 
The industry is small and people talk. Not just Adobe but others too. There's not alot of respect out there for cineform.
 
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