Christian Filmmakers?

[Josué Ignacio Saldaña]

I don't personally think that you're dishonoring God by depicting things in that way.

Hopefully our goal is TO honor him... let me bring you a good example: Lets say that you are doing a movie in which a child gets abused in way that to our current generation of filmgoers would not be able to tolerate... does this mean that you will not make this movie? or would you weave your storytelling to support this idea, even though it would happen off the screen? My point is that just because we tolerate certain things today, doesn't mean that the story necesseraly calls for it, or that there can't be a way around it without keeping your story amongst personal standards. There are a lot of things that happen and yet, when illustrated on the screen, moviemakers believe that they are telling the truth just because things like that happen and that is a misconception. We all know that no such things as intergalactic warfare is real... yet there are many who buy the character of Luke Skywalker... even his last name is outside of the boundaries of our reality. To that movie, it is real... can I shoot a soldier in the leg, not make him curse, move the audience and all the while keeping the integrity of my story... well, that is my goal in life for then I believe that I would be an excellent filmmaker. Not because he didn't curse, but because I wove a piece of art that tightened your heart when, why and how I said so. I don't even know if I'll ever get there, but man, I sure do enjoy the road traveled. The true masters of this art I believe to be the ones that can infiltrate so much into us by using our brain and immagination as their number one secret weapon... not the ones that use paint by numbers.

 

[Joseph Hutson]

hehehe

I hear what you're saying. I think it also has to do with the setting. In the special features of 300, I think they talked on how there wasn't swearing in the film cause back then when the movie was supposed to take place, the words which we consider swear words today just weren't in their vocabulary.

A movie that comes to mind is one of my favourites Blackhawk Down. And this doesn't have to do with it being Christian or not. But if you were to make a war movie set in the modern day, like Blackhawk Down, when a soldier gets shot through the leg, he's more than likely going to yell out some profanities. Obviously you're not going to rely on that to sell the authenticity though, so maybe you could do without it, I'm not sure.

But I don't think that things like that should keep people from seeing a movie, and I don't personally think that you're dishonoring God by depicting things in that way.

Here's a workaround..."BLEEP!!!"

 

[Josué Ignacio Saldaña]

Here's a workaround..."BLEEP!!!"

soderberg anyone?:sarcasm:

 

[Josué Ignacio Saldaña]

Any Christian Filmmakers in CT area?

 

[Joe Carney]

I love theology, but I've always thought the Bible was very hostile towards inquiry and investigation. Stories like the garden of Eden and the tower of Babel say pretty explicitly that knowledge of the universe is a Very Bad Thing for humans to pursue. And the idea that faith alone will decide if we spend eternity in heaven or hell tends to make people uneasy about any reckless free-thinking that might endanger that faith.


O rly? What exactly were those sincere discussions?

The bible is not hostile toward science and inquiry.
The people involved with Babel were punished for their pride. It was pride that motivated them to attempt to build a tower high enough to make them equal to God. (It was also stupid and impossible). God hates pride more than anything else.

Before Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil they were totally innocent and pure, they didn't know or think being nude was wrong. They were incapable of sin. This had nothing to do with being against knowleged per se. They were seduced by a lie.

Adams first 'job' was to name (classify) all the plants and animals. Which technically makes biology, not prostitution the oldest profession. :tongue:



Oh.. sarcasm is it?
Well..like the one I had the other night with my daughter in law and her family who who are Jewish. And the ones I've had with other Jewish friends wondering about the movie. The long simmering issues were with Jews being angry at being blamed for Jesus' death. They weren't at fault, and if he hadn't died and rose from the dead, well, we wouldn't be having this discussion to begin with. They also act surprised when I tell them that over 90% of the very early church was Jewish.

 

[Brian Langeman]

Zeke. Please do not continue these debates about people's beliefs. It's only going to get this thread and others like it closed down. If you need to respond to someone's posts about this stuff please PM them instead.

I know that we shouldn't be ashamed to talk about what we believe in, but this isn't the place to be debating our beliefs, as the hosts have clearly stated.

The majority of these debates are started from people who are hostile towards the Christian faith. Part of what they want is to have threads like this shut down. Don't feed the fire with more fuel.

 

[Joe Carney]

I think one of the issues with christian film making is the attacks from other christians if you don't meet 'their' concept of what a movie should be.

How realistic should you make your characters?
Using a specific example...
Just how far do you need to go to show the incredible damage of drug abuse and other destructive behaviour?

When does it cross from examination to exploitation?

Which is more effective...showing a drug addict getting saved, or a drug addict dying?
Showing a positive outcome can send the wrong message too,
since some will interpret that as, it's alright to do drugs and at some point straighten up your life?

How do you portray the awful personal cost in a realistic manner?
How about the real consequences, even after accepting Christ, that get smoothed over so often.

Would you have the courage to deal with mockery and attacks against christianity that go hand in hand with drug culture?

And on and on...

btw.. I think 'bleep' in a movie is hypocrisy of the worst sort. Almost as bad as when they try to replace curse words with non offensive ones for TV.
Curse, don't curse. Just don't bleep.

 

[Joe Carney]

Zeke. Please do not continue these debates about people's beliefs. It's only going to get this thread and others like it closed down. If you need to respond to someone's posts about this stuff please PM them instead.

I know that we shouldn't be ashamed to talk about what we believe in, but this isn't the place to be debating our beliefs, as the hosts have clearly stated.

The majority of these debates are started from people who are hostile towards the Christian faith. Part of what they want is to have threads like this shut down. Don't feed the fire with more fuel.

He mistated about a situation described in the bible. He also questioned my assertion about a 'film' called the passion of the Christ being the type of film that promotes discussion. I think it is fair to answer those points. I wasn't attacking anyones beliefs.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Just to reiterate Luki's "last warning" post... The next post that pops up in this thread that does not deal with Christian Filmmaking gets this thread locked down.

If you guys want to discuss various ways to practice faith and how one should or shouldn't interpret its varied teachings, that's fine as long as you take it to the proper forum. The REDUSER forum is not the right place.

I don't want this to seem like we're coming down too hard on you guys... We're not into the persecution of Christianity around here. And I think one key point that has been missed in all the pages of this thread is that Christian-themed media is a huge business in North America and much of the world and is growing at a substantial pace. But when it comes down to it, religion and politics are the two subjects that get emotions and tempers flowing like no other. If you guys can't keep this thread on-track, it will be closed and maybe we can try it again in a few days. If you think I'm being unreasonable, take a step back and look at the discussion here.

...And to those of you commenting that other religions, political subjects, porn, etc.. don't get as much flack as Christianity, take another look. You're obviously not paying attention.

 

[Roberto B]

frankly.. i can't get where's the beef?.. if someone believes.. and another one does not.. what's the problem?.. same for vice versa.. to each his own..

yes, i'm christian too.. but is this relevant on subject matter?..

 

[Shawn Nelson]

The greatest problem facing so-called Christian Filmmaking is a lack of truth.
The stories lack truth. The acting lacks it. Trying to be 'PG' rated in a 'R' world lacks truth. Instead of trying to show life as it is, they try to wrap it up into a version of life as they think it ought to be.

If Christians would instead write movies about real life, real pain and real salvation, the truth would shine and would be true art, a testament of heart and light.

 

[J.R. Hud]

The greatest problem facing so-called Christian Filmmaking is a lack of truth.
The stories lack truth. The acting lacks it. Trying to be 'PG' rated in a 'R' world lacks truth. Instead of trying to show life as it is, they try to wrap it up into a version of life as they think it ought to be.

If Christians would instead write movies about real life, real pain and real salvation, the truth would shine and would be true art, a testament of heart and light.

100% agreed.

 

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

The greatest problem facing so-called Christian Filmmaking is a lack of truth.
The stories lack truth. The acting lacks it. Trying to be 'PG' rated in a 'R' world lacks truth. Instead of trying to show life as it is, they try to wrap it up into a version of life as they think it ought to be.

If Christians would instead write movies about real life, real pain and real salvation, the truth would shine and would be true art, a testament of heart and light.

Word.

 

[Josué Ignacio Saldaña]

btw.. I think 'bleep' in a movie is hypocrisy of the worst sort. Almost as bad as when they try to replace curse words with non offensive ones for TV.
Curse, don't curse. Just don't bleep.

I think that the 'bleep' was a joke zeke... please be kind and enjoy this Thread a little.

 

[Joe Vinson]

What's your favorite mainstream movie with a Christian message that's not overtly allegorical (e.g. Chronicles of Narnia) or evangelical (e.g. The Nativity Story)?

 

[Josué Ignacio Saldaña]

The greatest problem facing so-called Christian Filmmaking is a lack of truth.
The stories lack truth. The acting lacks it. Trying to be 'PG' rated in a 'R' world lacks truth. Instead of trying to show life as it is, they try to wrap it up into a version of life as they think it ought to be.

If Christians would instead write movies about real life, real pain and real salvation, the truth would shine and would be true art, a testament of heart and light.

I agree and disagree on the effects of:

AGREE - The greatest problem facing so-called Christian Filmmaking is a lack of truth.
The stories lack truth. The acting lacks it.

DISAGREE - Instead of trying to show life as it is, they try to wrap it up into a version of life as they think it ought to be.

AGREE - the truth would shine and would be true art, a testament of heart and light; however, I DISAGREE that "real life, real pain and real salvation" equals to the truth.

We have to understand the difference between a story teller and a person trying to prove a point by saying "label A" must obey these rules to be considered a "label B." I don't believe that the rating has anything to do with the reason why Christian movies today lack story substance. The reality is that I have a whole collection of rated G movies, primarily pixar... that speak of the truth of their characters. A movie could be about real life and yet lack a whole lot of truth. The reason why documentary filmmaking is possibly one of the hardest genre is due to the unexpected results that one gets into from the begining... they don't know if they will be able to collect enough information to form a story. Even though they can collect a whole lot of "real life," it is possible that what they come up with at the end can lack a whole lot of truth to the story they are trying to tell. I believe that we all write and produce movies that detail life as we believe it ought to be... especially if the job is done well. The truth of a film is relative to the film itself. I believe that the worst thing anyone can do is to write a script that one doesn't believe in personally... in other words as things ought to be. Everything from the writing, to the lighting, camera angles, editing and even the marketing poster are choices that we make to describe life as we believe that it ought to be. Now, the difference between a good flick and a bad one is whether or not those choices made are put well together to tell a story... not the rating... not the "reality" of it all.

The bottom line is that Christian or non- any film MUST follow certain principles in strorytelling... regardless of the point of view. A well told story is a well told story... plain and simple. The goal is to tell a story well and as Christians is to tell a story well and one to glorify our Lord. For what is the purpose that we have as a- believer and as b- filmmakers?

 

[Josué Ignacio Saldaña]

What's your favorite mainstream movie with a Christian message that's not overtly allegorical (e.g. Chronicles of Narnia) or evangelical (e.g. The Nativity Story)?

AMISTAD by Steven Spielberg

 

[Joe Vinson]

FYI, I found this article that touches on a lot of the ideas that have been expressed here.

 

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

What's your favorite mainstream movie with a Christian message that's not overtly allegorical (e.g. Chronicles of Narnia) or evangelical (e.g. The Nativity Story)?

The Shawshank Redemption.


Now that I thought of it, it's a perfect example of what we're looking for. It's not 100 % mainstream, but...

...

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things... and no good thing ever dies...".

Perfect...

An excellent movie with a Christian subtext and an in-direct and not-annoying Christian message. Presented in a human, real and believable way.

Perfection...

 

[Josué Ignacio Saldaña]

An excellent movie with a Christian subtext and an in-direct and not-annoying Christian message. Presented in a human, real and believable way. Perfection...

There are two things that could make a "Christian Message" from a movie annoying:

1- A disconnect from the movie

which will then lead to:

2- Time to involve personal opinions on the matter.

I am telling you, there are movies that I watch that show things that I don't agree with, but the only time that I integrate personal opinions to help rate it as an annoying sermon is when the story is ill told.

We don't have to agree with the characterization or world view of a character in order to empathize with him or her... as a matter of fact, how many movies have you watched where there was an empathy connection with a character of the opposite gender, race, political views, marital preferences, different language... etc... yet we fell in love with them and found ourselves saying that if we were this character in this situation, we would make the same choices made. Not many of the points being mentioned here in discussing the general census that "Christian Movies" today are not good (& I agree that they are not) are relative to the deep down core values of what makes a good movie. I am a strong believer with this point due to the fact that I have watched many movies with which world views I disagree with... yet when they are well-made, they are still a joy to watch...

I can't agree that a direct Christian message will automatically negate any of its potentials in being a good movie... it is all up to the taste and style of the production designers. I can't agree that in order for a Christian movie to be good, it needs to be ambigous in context... though ambiguity can be a tremendous weapon for the filmmaker when it is done the right way... it forces the audience to involve their psyché into the movie in a positive way... depending on the intelligence level of the audience ofcourse (we can't forget that children movies are films also). A well established and strong filmmaker is one that exhibits what he believes in theory strongly and effectively on the screen... it can be some of the point mentioned, but I don't agree that they have to be the points mentioned.

The question that needs to be answered is this: How can we- through cinema, bring our audience to a point of empathy with our characters that they wish upon them what we lead them to believe to be the "center of good."