Cheaper Steadicam Options?

[Finner]

Of Course!

If you look on the right of frame - you'll find a Movicam SL on the sled...

Ya I was just kidding with you. Those 535's are nice cameras but are real boat anchors.

the 535 with steadimags and the video only top flies very well.

nick

There are also moving men that say hide-a-bed couches are not heavy to move. But if you want to bust your back and max out a big sled's springs with a 535 be my guest.

 

[Nick Gardner]

Hey I'm not saying it's great fun, but it is certainly doable and not as bad as you'd think. And I don't think it would max out any springs on any pro rig. Personally my favorite camera to fly is the Arricam LT. The Red is a close second.

Now a BL on the otherhand.........

Cheers,

Nick

 

[Ivan Cortazar]

I suspect that will predicate a couple of custom cables (one from the Flyer LE 3-pin Lemo to the P-Tap box, and one from the P-Tap to the Red), but at least it gives you the option of connecting more devices, and a fairly standard connector to work with.
Tim

Thanks Tim,

That's a pretty good solution. I think I'll try to do the same. Where are you going to buy the Lemo connectors and cables? And do you know if Red has any diagram of the power Lemo cable? I have a small soldering machine at home, but I am not en expert in electronics, so a diagram would be a good help when trying to go from a Lemo 3-pin to P-Tab and then to Lemo 6-pin.

 

[Tim Morten]

Thanks Tim,

That's a pretty good solution. I think I'll try to do the same. Where are you going to buy the Lemo connectors and cables? And do you know if Red has any diagram of the power Lemo cable? I have a small soldering machine at home, but I am not en expert in electronics, so a diagram would be a good help when trying to go from a Lemo 3-pin to P-Tab and then to Lemo 6-pin.

I was planning to have my cables done by Terry West (techrat@earthlink.net) - he has aleady done several Red/Steadicam cables for others, and has a great reputation. To wire up your own, p. 66 of the current operating manual has a diagram that I'll attach as an image.

Cheers,
Tim

 

[Paul Kalbach]

So you get your rig and set out to practice... Seriously, take a workshop!

Take the workshop BEFORE you purchase ANY rig! If you are seriously considering flying a camera, take a workshop. Learn the craft before you "teach yourself".

This isn't "elite advise" but real advise. Ask operators who get paid to fly - they will tell you the same thing, "You want to be a Steadicam operator? Take workshop, then call me."

I'll 3rd or 4th that! I bought my first Steadicam shortly after I rented one with no instruction for a shoot in 1993. It wasn't until several years later that I took a workshop from Cinema Products (pre-Tiffen). I really regretted not having taken a workshop in the very beginning. I had really developed some bad habits. Get Certified!

Also, anybody who is considering cutting on weight capacity in favor of cutting costs; think again. My rig is rated at 26 lb capacity, but I'm maxed out and there's still other accessories I want to add. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Tim Morten]

I have tremendous respect for all the pros out there with expensive sleds and workshops under their belts - thanks for taking the time to chime in. My goal with this thread was to explore less expensive gear options, so hopefully it turns out that there are some (and that it hasn't been a waste of time discussing the Flyer LE and FS Pro).

From talking to a few Flyer operators (who have been living with a 15lbs limit since they bought before the LE came out), they all had some first-hand accounts of flying the Red One on their rigs. Would it be nice to have more room on weight? I'm sure the answer is yes. Is it worth the additional $8k for an ActionCam, or an additional $20k for the next cheapest Steadicam rig? Depends on your budget, I guess. In my case, the more expensive ActionCam and SteadiCams are simply not an option.

I'll share some more thoughts when I've had a chance to gain some first-hand experience of my own.

Cheers,
Tim

 

[Charles Papert]

Hey I'm not saying it's great fun, but it is certainly doable and not as bad as you'd think. And I don't think it would max out any springs on any pro rig. Personally my favorite camera to fly is the Arricam LT. The Red is a close second.

Now a BL on the otherhand.........

Let's just clarify we are talking a 535B and not a standard 535 here. No-one in their right mind would want to fly a 535 on a rig, it's at least as heavy as a BL4, probably more so.

True enough, the 535B doesn't max out the rig but it's a good 4-5 lbs heavier than most of the other sound cameras out there. I've done it here and there and I have to extend my post a good 6", not a positive sign. But yeah, it does fly "nicely" thanks to that extra inertia, like an ocean liner!

 

[Ivan Cortazar]

I was planning to have my cables done by Terry West (techrat@earthlink.net) - he has already done several Red/Steadicam cables for others, and has a great reputation. To wire up your own, p. 66 of the current operating manual has a diagram that I'll attach as an image.
Cheers,
Tim

Thanks a lot Tim,

I just ordered the
Steadicam from B&H and the P-Tab Adaptor. At the end I was able to get a pretty good price. I realized that Adorama had drop the price a lot so I called B&H and I've got a Matched price with free shipping.

The Flyer EL in Adorama is now at $6,500.- plus free shipping.

I will contact Terry West for the cables. Also I haven't bought the Redbyte because I am planning using the Red LCD monitor. But I guess it would be useful to have it anyway, so I can use the SD monitor for framing and the Red LCD with the long cable for follow focus right? How are you planning on attaching the redbyte to the Redone?

Tim thanks a lot for your help.

Ivan C.

 

[Tim Morten]

The Flyer EL in Adorama is now at $6,500.- plus free shipping.
Ivan C.

Wow, that's fantastic! I had a pang of regret for buying used when I read that, but I guess I'm getting a soft-case, some batts, and a charger, so I can console myself.

How are you planning on attaching the redbyte to the Redone?

I'm currently exploring the possibility of using a Nebtek NEB70HDS display to eliminate the need for the RedByte... it's available for under $2k, and it's almost 600nits. I think that would let me use the video cable in the post (for SDI), and then I wouldn't need the RedByte in the mix.

Charles, if you're still reading, any advice on this? Is powering/mounting a 3rd party monitor on the sled straight-forward? I guess I'll know better when my rig arrives.

Cheers,
Tim

 

[Charles Papert]

The wiring in the Flyer LE is likely not going to be able to carry an HD-SDI signal. It's possible, but I doubt it has the proper type of cable. I would call Tiffen and ask Michael Craig about this one.

Also be aware that the Flyer monitor has anti-reflective coatings on it to make it more viewable in daylight; a stock HD monitor will not have this and be tough to see outside. Daylight viewability is VERY important (as is good off-axis viewing).

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

I have one for sale 1800 bucks. basically same thing as a glidecam v25.. except 3A vest, and stronger arm...

1800.00 if anyone is interested.

 

[ericyoung]

The wiring in the Flyer LE is likely not going to be able to carry an HD-SDI signal. It's possible, but I doubt it has the proper type of cable. I would call Tiffen and ask Michael Craig about this one.
...

Standard SD 75ohm video cable WILL carry HD-SDI over short runs - the length of a Flyer LE post is neglible, so I'm pretty certain it will work! (I'm a video engineer). Also I believe the LE has an optional HD monitor, so I'd be surprised if the standard wiring wasn't HD-SDI cable anyway (it'd make no sense to supply it with anything else as there is very little difference cost wise)

But as I don't have a Flyer LE I haven't tried it - the only way to be sure is to try it for yourself.

 

[ericyoung]

I have one for sale 1800 bucks. basically same thing as a glidecam v25.. except 3A vest, and stronger arm...

1800.00 if anyone is interested.

Sorry Zakaree - what exactly do you have for sale?

 

[Vigen Vartanov]

I have one for sale 1800 bucks. basically same thing as a glidecam v25.. except 3A vest, and stronger arm...

1800.00 if anyone is interested.

And why only 1800 USD if it is same like glide cam V25 ? It looks cheap

 

[Tim Morten]

Standard SD 75ohm video cable WILL carry HD-SDI over short runs - the length of a Flyer LE post is neglible, so I'm pretty certain it will work! (I'm a video engineer). Also I believe the LE has an optional HD monitor, so I'd be surprised if the standard wiring wasn't HD-SDI cable anyway (it'd make no sense to supply it with anything else as there is very little difference cost wise)

But as I don't have a Flyer LE I haven't tried it - the only way to be sure is to try it for yourself.

My Flyer LE arrived (hooray!)... now I am exploring the monitor question. It appears that mounting the Nebtek is no problem (there is a standard screw mount), but cabling is an open question. Wheras the top of the sled has a standard BNC, the bottom monitor connection is a proprietary connector that seems to carry both power and video to the stock monitor. I assume that it's possible to create a Y-cable to split these, and I've contacted Terry West for help.

The manual (which unfortunately hasn't yet been made available on-line) indicates that there are different connections on top of the sled depending on whether you've got an SD or HD version of the Flyer LE. I was hoping that would not be the case, and that the cabling was the same for both. This means there is some uncertainty whether the cabling will be sufficient for HD-SDI, but like Eric suggested, it still seems possible that standard def cable will be okay for a run this short.

To Charles' point about brightness/glare coating, the Nebtek has high brightness (almost 600 nits), and a glare coating, so my expectation is that it may actually be more viewable than the 300 nit HD solution that Tiffen is currently offering on the FlyerLE. That said, I think it is slightly heavier, and it may turn out to be more of a power hog.

Once I get all my cabling sorted, I will post some pictures . As everyone has suggested, I have a lot to learn about flying the rig!

Cheers,
Tim

 

[Ivan Cortazar]

My Flyer LE arrived (hooray!)...
Tim

Mine arrives tomorrow evening! But I don't know when I'll be able to start playing with it. I started going to the Gym to get in a better shape, and I look like I am "Robby the Robot" from Forbidden planet.

I can barely move my arms... :biggrin:

I also got the Redbyte. I am planning on using Red LCD or the standard Def. monitor that comes with it. I also was thinking, instead of putting the Redbyte on the camera, I could attach it to the lower part of the sled, therefore my camera load still stays pretty low. What do you think? The annoying thing is that i will have to run cables outside the sled. I don't think I'll be able to run them from inside, right?

 

[Tim Morten]

I can barely move my arms... :biggrin:

I also got the Redbyte. I am planning on using Red LCD or the standard Def. monitor that comes with it. I also was thinking, instead of putting the Redbyte on the camera, I could attach it to the lower part of the sled, therefore my camera load still stays pretty low. What do you think? The annoying thing is that i will have to run cables outside the sled. I don't think I'll be able to run them from inside, right?

Ha! I look like Robby the Robot as far as the round shape goes... time to get to the gym myself .

It turns out that the connector to the monitor is a Hirose that carries both power and video. Terry West said it's a no go on HD through that Hirose, but that he could replace the connector altogether, or simply rewire the post with a new cable. With the added complication, I think I too will go the RedByte route for starters at least -- it looks like Decimators won't be in stock until 3/24?

http://www.tecads.com/product_info.php?products_id=6&osCsid=62b9ab0e7f60993295cd219a984e23d0

Since the connector at the bottom is NOT BNC, you're right that you would either have to run an external cable, have someone rig a cable through the post for you, or perhaps rig up a splitter on the Hirose connection.

Cheers,
Tim

 

[ericyoung]

Ha! I look like Robby the Robot as far as the round shape goes... time to get to the gym myself .

It turns out that the connector to the monitor is a Hirose that carries both power and video. Terry West said it's a no go on HD through that Hirose, but that he could replace the connector altogether, or simply rewire the post with a new cable. With the added complication, I think I too will go the RedByte route for starters at least -- it looks like Decimators won't be in stock until 3/24?

http://www.tecads.com/product_info.php?products_id=6&osCsid=62b9ab0e7f60993295cd219a984e23d0

Since the connector at the bottom is NOT BNC, you're right that you would either have to run an external cable, have someone rig a cable through the post for you, or perhaps rig up a splitter on the Hirose connection.

Cheers,
Tim

Hi Tim

Try posting a photo of the relevant manual pages - although Terry is technically correct that the Hirose isn't HD-SDI compliant, I repeat my assertion that over such a short run you'll get away with it! I'm a bit surprised the SD and HD Flyer LE configs are completely separate.

Personally (with caveat that I don't have an LE to test) I would bet you can break out the power/video connector. Personally I'd then feed the video into the Decimator, then the SD composite Decimator output to a portable SD composite distribution amp. One output from that to any wireless transmitter, another output back to the breakout to feed the Flyer LE monitor. Then there's no need to run cables outside of the post.

IF you were going HD everything, then considerably more cost and other consideration involved as HD kit is still at a premium!

 

[ericyoung]

Mine arrives tomorrow evening! But I don't know when I'll be able to start playing with it. I started going to the Gym to get in a better shape, and I look like I am "Robby the Robot" from Forbidden planet.

I can barely move my arms... :biggrin:

...

A Flyer setup even with a 19lbs camera load is NOT a very heavy Steadicam setup. I'm pretty unmuscley, and could wear one for extended periods. Of course, I'd still rest as much as possible. False macho-ness in Steadicam of any load weight just shortens your ability to keep fine control throughout a long shoot, and potentially damages your body cumulatively. Just because you can wear one all day with a light load, doesn't make it a good habit to get into!

 

[Tim Morten]

Try posting a photo of the relevant manual pages - although Terry is technically correct that the Hirose isn't HD-SDI compliant, I repeat my assertion that over such a short run you'll get away with it! I'm a bit surprised the SD and HD Flyer LE configs are completely separate.

I'll grab a shot of it later today and post. It'd definitely be nicer to do a Y cable than rewire.

Personally (with caveat that I don't have an LE to test) I would bet you can break out the power/video connector. Personally I'd then feed the video into the Decimator, then the SD composite Decimator output to a portable SD composite distribution amp. One output from that to any wireless transmitter, another output back to the breakout to feed the Flyer LE monitor. Then there's no need to run cables outside of the post.

For now, I'm thinking that I'll just stick the Decimator on the camera, and feed the BNC into the top of the post (that end is a standard connector) directly to the stock SD monitor (which is what gets fed through the Hirose).

IF you were going HD everything, then considerably more cost and other consideration involved as HD kit is still at a premium!

As far as I can tell, the only cost of going HD should be for the monitor ($1900 for a 600 nit NebTek), and re-cabling (perhaps as little as $350 if the Y cable were to work out)... $2250 for HD is a heck of a savings over the prepackaged HD versions of the Flyer LE.

Cheers,
Tim