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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Cheaper Steadicam Options?

Cam Crowley said:
Looks like that Arri is for 4X4 filters.

Was thinking about this from Cavison
http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?op=print_details&sku=CIMB4512H2

Nice price, fairly light and should fit the 18-50mm (please correct me if I'm wrong on that one because it is kind of important!!) - anybody have experience with these?

Cam
Click to expand...

That Arri clip-on is an old LMB-2 for 3x3" filters... the guy selling it should tell about that if he were honest.
The Cavision should be OK for that price... don´t forget about the adaptor rings for different diameters.
A better option is Chrosziel... more expensive of course. But may be an E-Bay search...
Guido
 
You are probably right, but the MK-V doesn't automaicaly come with the Alien Revolution head.
 
Craig A. Macon said:
You are probably right, but the MK-V doesn't automaicaly come with the Alien Revolution head.
Click to expand...

W shall see, I just requested a quote for the lite and full rig(email) and will post what I find out.kick ass demo fo sho... although the blonde dude is a bit stiff like an early model terminator with rubber skin. certainly not a T-1000 :)

I had thought the Glidecam V25 was the only one that could handle a RED
full outfitted... and even then, thought it wpuld be close.

IMO, always cheaper to hire a guy with a rig... you get skillz and save
time...defintely agree with other posters... it is an artform.
 
OK, where to begin.

If one intends to use the RED on a Flyer, I would suggest stripping everything off it (no rods/brackets/dovetail base/etc). Add the lens (preferably a light one, like a Super/Ultraspeed) and clip on mattebox. Use the mini-rod adaptor to supply mounting point for the motor--you guys DO know that you must have a remotely operated lens motor for at least focus, right? Downconverter (AJA, Decimator) if the monitor on the rig is SD. Power the camera directly from the sled and record onto CF cards. This will keep the weight hovering at the top end of the payload with hopefully a little wiggle room for other accessories.

Why would you want to use the rig's SD monitor rather than the onboard RED monitor? Said onboard monitor has a very limited viewing angle and is not great in sunlight, which makes it a poor choice for Steadicam use. Also having cables travel from the top to the bottom of the rig is an annoyance.

Regarding the FS rigs compared to the Steadicam (Tiffen) brand; I've not used the FS but have heard about them anecdotally. The arms and gimbals on most of the low-end rigs are mediocre to wretched. The Steadicam brand is not inexpensive but nothing can touch the arm design when it comes to the lighter rigs like the Flyer.

Getting up into full-size rigs, I have been impressed with many aspects of the Actioncam especially for RED users.

Beyond that, when you start to talk about MK-V there are a number of manufacturers that should be brought into the conversation including GPI, XCS, Baer Bel as well as the high end Steadicam rigs but all of these will cost more than I think anyone participating in this conversation is looking to shell out. The AR for instance costs $60K or so, and that's ON TOP OFF a $40K sled, plus another $25 or so for vest and arm--and that's without cables or other accessories. No-one ever said this stuff was cheap! But, as they saying goes, that's why we make the big bucks.

Seriously though--my advice is that if you are at all serious about the results you get from your stabilizer, don't cheap out if you can possible help it. It will be a viable tool that will last you for many years (and generations of RED products!) to come, just like a good fluid head. I've seen a number of people end up unhappy with quickly broken parts, lame customer service and a hard time getting their money back when they eventually sell and move up to better stuff (or a lot of time, get frustrated and give up on the whole concept).
 
Thanks Charles; much appreciated!

Even the Flyer LE is a pretty big investment, but it sounds like from a weight perspective it should be feasible. Assuming the chart I looked at is correct, approximate weights are:

Body - 10lbs
Lens - 2.5lbs (Red 18-50)
Inclino motor - 1.5lbs? (anyone know the actual weight?)
Matte box - 1lb (LMB-5)​
That would leave 4 lbs of room for filters, cables, down-converter (if needed), etc.

Best,
Tim
 
I actually own an FS Pro system. I recently purchased it and I am presently making some modifications for the batteries and monitor. Although I am not an expert on steadicam systems and am still very much learning how to use them, the one thing that strikes me about this unit is the quality of the gimbal (this is only an opinion based on observation, as I have not done any comparative of empirical testing). Also the joint between the arms is actually quite solid (the picture on the website is a bit deceptive in this regard).

Stelios Kokotos
Producer / Director
www.myproductionportal.com
 
SPFXS said:
I actually own an FS Pro system. I recently purchased it and I am presently making some modifications for the batteries and monitor. Although I am not an expert on steadicam systems and am still very much learning how to use them, the one thing that strikes me about this unit is the quality of the gimbal (this is only an opinion based on observation, as I have not done any comparative of empirical testing). Also the joint between the arms is actually quite solid (the picture on the website is a bit deceptive in this regard).
Click to expand...

That's very encouraging! Have you already used it to fly a Red?

Best,
Tim
 
Unfortunately, I am not a red owner (yet), or have had the opportunity to fly a red unit. However I have used it on my SDX900e broadcast cameras (~8 kg weight with battery). Apart from the obvious need to spend more time at the gym :weight_lift: and practice (lots and lots more practice needed), I am able to get reasonably steady shots. However I would encourage you to listen to people like Charles Papert who is a steadicam veteran and a skilled operator. I purchased my unit for specialty shots, and to learn the craft of steadicam operation and do not intend to be a full time operator.

Stelios Kokotos
Producer / Director
www.myproductionportal.com
 
One design flaw (omission really) on the FS PRO is that it does not allow for pitch adjustment where the arm meets the vest. This feature, which has been standard on full-size rigs since their introduction, has trickled down to the smallest Steadicam brand rigs and a few manufacturers have followed suit. It's critical to operator comfort and proper posture, and will help minimize fatigue and encourage proper form. Without the dual-axis adjustment, the rig will often tend to fly away from the operator which requires him to reign it back in, and/or assume an unnatural flying position to avoid this.

I can't speak for the rest of the FSPRO myself since I haven't tried it on, but perhaps I will get the chance at one of the trade shows.

BTW, while it may seem like I am a champion of the Steadicam brand, my main rig is actually comprised of components made by other manufacturers. I do have a great deal of respect for many of their products, especially in the under-$10K market.
 
Thanks Charles,

What do you think it is the main difference between the flyer and the Actioncam? Aside form the weight capacity, what do you think about the quality of the product?

I have only used a steady once, and now that I own a Red I am really considering buying a Steadycam or similar.

Being able to put more load on it it is interesting, but it is twice the price. I have a Birger mount and most likely will be using the Red stripped to its minimum (cause the canon lenses and the impero will have Remote Follow Focus) So I think I will always be able to keep it pretty low on weight.

Do you think it is worth paying double to get the actioncam?

Thanks for your advise,

Ivan

Charles Papert said:
OK, where to begin.

If one intends to use the RED on a Flyer, I would suggest stripping everything off it (no rods/brackets/dovetail base/etc). Add the lens (preferably a light one, like a Super/Ultraspeed) and clip on mattebox. Use the mini-rod adaptor to supply mounting point for the motor--you guys DO know that you must have a remotely operated lens motor for at least focus, right? Downconverter (AJA, Decimator) if the monitor on the rig is SD. Power the camera directly from the sled and record onto CF cards. This will keep the weight hovering at the top end of the payload with hopefully a little wiggle room for other accessories.

Why would you want to use the rig's SD monitor rather than the onboard RED monitor? Said onboard monitor has a very limited viewing angle and is not great in sunlight, which makes it a poor choice for Steadicam use. Also having cables travel from the top to the bottom of the rig is an annoyance.

Regarding the FS rigs compared to the Steadicam (Tiffen) brand; I've not used the FS but have heard about them anecdotally. The arms and gimbals on most of the low-end rigs are mediocre to wretched. The Steadicam brand is not inexpensive but nothing can touch the arm design when it comes to the lighter rigs like the Flyer.

Getting up into full-size rigs, I have been impressed with many aspects of the Actioncam especially for RED users.

Beyond that, when you start to talk about MK-V there are a number of manufacturers that should be brought into the conversation including GPI, XCS, Baer Bel as well as the high end Steadicam rigs but all of these will cost more than I think anyone participating in this conversation is looking to shell out. The AR for instance costs $60K or so, and that's ON TOP OFF a $40K sled, plus another $25 or so for vest and arm--and that's without cables or other accessories. No-one ever said this stuff was cheap! But, as they saying goes, that's why we make the big bucks.

Seriously though--my advice is that if you are at all serious about the results you get from your stabilizer, don't cheap out if you can possible help it. It will be a viable tool that will last you for many years (and generations of RED products!) to come, just like a good fluid head. I've seen a number of people end up unhappy with quickly broken parts, lame customer service and a hard time getting their money back when they eventually sell and move up to better stuff (or a lot of time, get frustrated and give up on the whole concept).
Click to expand...
 
One design flaw (omission really) on the FS PRO is that it does not allow for pitch adjustment where the arm meets the vest. This feature, which has been standard on full-size rigs since their introduction, has trickled down to the smallest Steadicam brand rigs and a few manufacturers have followed suit. It's critical to operator comfort and proper posture, and will help minimize fatigue and encourage proper form. Without the dual-axis adjustment, the rig will often tend to fly away from the operator which requires him to reign it back in, and/or assume an unnatural flying position to avoid this.
Click to expand...

Yes, I have noticed this. When I first put the unit on I had to struggle a little to keep the camera from getting away from me. Carefully balancing the unit and wearing the vest lower over the hips does appear to help a little. I may consider having the joint modified at a later stage to allow for this adjustment.

Stelios Kokotos
Producer / Director
www.myproductionportal.com
 
Ivan:

If you are absolutely sure that your RED setup will never exceed the weight limit of the Flyer, then you might as well save the money. Remember though that the base Flyer has an SD monitor so you will need to add a downconverter into the mix.

The two most important components of any stabilizer are the gimbal and arm, and both units are well-equipped in this area, better than other rigs in this class. Overall build quality is good also. I do have issues with the configuration of the lower sled components in both rigs, but the Actioncam is more easily reconfigurable than the Flyer.

Really it comes down to whether or not you will ever need to add more accessories to your RED for a given shot--it can certainly happen. Say you want to track someone from the shady side of the street to the sunlight side--you'll need to add another motor to do an iris pull. Or you get into a video transmitter. Or you want to use the Lensbaby for an effects shot. Or you need to be able to shoot longer than the CF cards will allow so you have to fly the hard drive. And so on...it's risky not having capacity to spare.
 
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