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Cheaper Steadicam Options?

T

Tim Morten

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I have zero experience with stabilizers, but I have a couple of questions that I'm hoping someone with more experience can answer:

1. Is there any reason to get the Steadicam Flyer LE Red Edition, when a regular V-mount Flyer LE system costs half as much?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...FLYER_LERED_FLYER_LERED_Flyer_LE_Red_One.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...N_F24LEVLNN_Flyer24_LE_Camera_Stabilizer.html

As far as I can tell, the difference is a power cable (listed separately at $300), the charger and batteries (which most Red owners already own), and the HD monitor (listed separately at $3700). The Red version also seems to have a hard case instead of a soft case.

Why not buy the cheaper system, buy the red power cable separately, and perhaps start off using a down coverter (with the option to upgrade to the HD monitor later)? Perhaps there's even a way to use the Red LCD, a la ActionCam? Either way, this seems like much more cost-effective solution than the "Red Package", and even comes in substantially below the price of the group buy ActionCam (though I recognize that the ActionCam can fly more weight)...

TOTAL COST (w/ downconverter instead of HD monitor, or rigging up the Red LCD): Ballpark $7000 to $8000
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2. Speaking of cheaper, can anyone offer opinions on this Canadian knock-off that costs only $2600?
http://www.fsprostab.com/english/

I'm not looking to rent out my gear, so brand-name isn't a sensitivity of mine -- that said, I assume that there must be substantial qualitative differences to cause such a discrepancy in price. Rather than just saying "you get what you pay for", let me know if you have first-hand experience with the product, or if you see obvious deficiencies from the pictures/footage that aren't just operator-error.

I realize that I'd have to buy $500 in cables from Red to use my drive and my monitor at the bottom, and I'd have to get a custom power cable extension to put my Red battery plate down there as well, so perhaps another $300.

TOTAL COST (w/ cables for Red LCD, drive, battery plate): Ballpark $3500

Is the baseline Flyer LE really TWICE as good? Is the ActionCam really FOUR times as good, even with its higher weight rating? Paying extra for higher quality makes sense, but those kinds of multiples make me question whether there is enough of a difference to justify the cost... like I said, I have zero experience, so I'm prepared for someone to tell me that there are perfectly good reasons. :)
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Thanks!
Tim
 
Hi Tim:

While no expert on the subject, I have some points to consider:

1. Both Steadicam units listed and the Canadian knock-off max out at 18-20 pounds. Sure it's possible to strip the Red down to 15 pounds but that really limits your options, lenses and etc.

2. As far as the difference between the RED Flyer LE and regular Flyer LE, I think you have a real point. If you don't need the Red Batteries, hard case or High-Def monitor, then I can't see any reason to spend the extra dough. However, that "could be" a fairly expensive outdoor viewable monitor?

3. It is certainly possible that the Canadian knock-off is just as good as the Flyer LE. Remember, Steadicam (Tiffen) has much higher overhead, R&D and distribution costs not to mention B&H's markup on this type of equipment. Those factors considered, there really isn't as big a difference in price. From the video and example footage, looks like that unit "can" produce good results. My guess is that an expert Steadicam operator could fly either unit well. Might be easier for you to fly the Steadicam if components are higher quality. In one case, you are buying a well-known brand through a respected reseller and in the other buying direct from manufacturer with less warranty, guarantee and support so it's not really twice as much for the Flyer LE.

EDIT: The sample footage on that Canadian site is not really that good but that could be due to a variety of factors other than the quality of the stabilizer system. Only real way to compare two paint brushes is to have the same artist paint with both using same paint and canvas.

-shooter
 
Tim -

I would look into the craft of the steadicam operator before purchasing a cheap system. Some guys try it, hate it and then forget about it. Try it before you buy it. Beyond the "you get what you pay for" speech, there is a craft to flyin' the camera. There's an art to balancing the camera properly, walking the line, operating in general, front or back mount...

You can take a workshop in Rockport, Maine, there's one in Malibu, CA too. If you're gonna invest in the rig, why not invest in your skills too?
 
I too would be curious what people had to say about the canadian knock off.
 
We've rigged our Steadicam Flyer with the RED (with 18-50mm recording to CF) successfully by using the longer LCD cable and battery belt clip from RED (placing both these where the original monitor and battery plate sat). We were actually suprised at how well it worked.

Out of interest, can anybody recommend a (really) lightweight clamp on mattebox (for 4X5.64 filters) for Stedicam work - I think we might still have 1kg or so up our sleeves to work with the Flyer and am keen to see if we can get a more 'production ready' rig out of it.

Cam
 
Cam Crowley said:
Out of interest, can anybody recommend a (really) lightweight clamp on mattebox (for 4X5.64 filters) for Stedicam work - I think we might still have 1kg or so up our sleeves to work with the Flyer and am keen to see if we can get a more 'production ready' rig out of it.

Cam
Click to expand...

Hi Cam:

You might be able to put Doug Underhaul's lightweight Rod Support for RED One to use.

This bracket allows you to attach 15mm rods directly to the front of your RED ONE camera—no need for a sliding base plate, rods, and rod adapter. Now you can mount accessories with 60mm rod spacing (matte box, follow focus, zoom motor, etc.) with the lightest possible setup.

http://www.longvalleyequip.com/rodsupport.php

-shooter
 
Back then, I looked into the steadicam flyer..but using a red with mattebox, wireless receiver, wireless follow focus, et top mount cheeseplate and whatever other goodies i need to pile on the red.. i was afraid I would be pushing the weight limit of the flyer. then I tried out the actioncam and loved it.

Cam Crowley appears to have the flyer working well though!
 
Cam Crowley said:
We've rigged our Steadicam Flyer with the RED (with 18-50mm recording to CF) successfully by using the longer LCD cable and battery belt clip from RED (placing both these where the original monitor and battery plate sat). We were actually suprised at how well it worked.

Out of interest, can anybody recommend a (really) lightweight clamp on mattebox (for 4X5.64 filters) for Stedicam work - I think we might still have 1kg or so up our sleeves to work with the Flyer and am keen to see if we can get a more 'production ready' rig out of it.

Cam
Click to expand...

not sure how much these weigh:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...ksid=p3907.m29&_trkparms=algo=LVI&its=I&otn=2
 
http://www.mk-v.com/?page_id=163
Fuel for the fire.

But seriously, I am not a Steadicam user or anything, but I thought the advantage of the Actioncam system was that it is using the RED monitor and batteries as part of the counterweight system. This means less weight up top...and down below to counter it.
 
Craig A. Macon said:
I thought the advantage of the Actioncam system was that it is using the RED monitor and batteries as part of the counterweight system. This means less weight up top...and down below to counter it.
Click to expand...

We've managed to rig the Flyer like this (with RED LCD and batteries as counterweight on the bottom) as I mentioned without too much hassle. You need the longer cables from RED but it will work.
 
Cam Crowley said:
We've managed to rig the Flyer like this (with RED LCD and batteries as counterweight on the bottom) as I mentioned without too much hassle. You need the longer cables from RED but it will work.
Click to expand...

Hi Cam:

Do you have a picture you could post? Would be greatly appreciated.

-shooter
 
Cam Crowley said:
We've rigged our Steadicam Flyer with the RED (with 18-50mm recording to CF) successfully by using the longer LCD cable and battery belt clip from RED (placing both these where the original monitor and battery plate sat). We were actually suprised at how well it worked.

Out of interest, can anybody recommend a (really) lightweight clamp on mattebox (for 4X5.64 filters) for Stedicam work - I think we might still have 1kg or so up our sleeves to work with the Flyer and am keen to see if we can get a more 'production ready' rig out of it.

Cam
Click to expand...

Very encouraging; I understand the Flyer LE raises the weight limit from 15lbs to 19lbs, so there should be room to play with there. Also, Red now offers a 6ft drive cable, so the Red Raid could theoretically also go down below as a counter-balance (have to figure out how to mount it though).

Regarding matte boxes, this one was recommended in another thread:
http://www.defoetech.com/95mmmboxpage.htm

Best,
Tim
 
We tried it a couple of months ago but I don't have any pics unfortunately. If I remember correctly, we were able to switch the screens and screw the RED LCD to the mount on the Flyer. The battery plate was attached with good old fashioned cable ties!! - hardly elegant but it worked well.
 
The arm on that canadian rip-off really bothers me, the connection between them is so weak that I wouldn't want to fly much weight on it. Plus, the real value/tech/possible weak point in a steadicam-like design is in the arm, just about any sled can work, but the arm can make or break you.

If it's got universal connections, you might be able to pick up a Flyer arm and this sled and be okay. The arm is what can or can't hold the weight for the most part anyway.
 
Tim Sutherland said:
The arm on that canadian rip-off really bothers me, the connection between them is so weak that I wouldn't want to fly much weight on it. Plus, the real value/tech/possible weak point in a steadicam-like design is in the arm, just about any sled can work, but the arm can make or break you.

If it's got universal connections, you might be able to pick up a Flyer arm and this sled and be okay. The arm is what can or can't hold the weight for the most part anyway.
Click to expand...

Tim, while the arm is certainly important, the key to proper handling and load capability is the gimbal. The gimbal is the heart of any stabilizing system and it is the weakest point for vast majority of systems...
 
Tim Sutherland said:
The arm on that canadian rip-off really bothers me, the connection between them is so weak that I wouldn't want to fly much weight on it.
Click to expand...

The "elbow-link" was the first thing that popped to my eyes as well. I heard of GPI Pro-Arms where it broke, just like the socket block, so this thing looks really suspicious to me.
 
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