change to module?? in the CF Upgrade Package

[Blair S. Paulsen]

I take Brent's notes at face value, developing and manufacturing the Weapon costs money and RED has to stay in the black.

In past upgrade/new release scenarios it was typically a fairly easy choice to stay on the leading edge. In part because of the upgrade packages RED offered. In part because the new hotness provided an immediate benefit both to the camera user and the client. This is different. As a cameraman/DIT/workflow designer the Weapon promises to make my days better in ways I care about. Telling producers that it's the same chip in a slightly smaller body so it's $400 more per day will go over like a lead balloon. Yes, the internal ProRes recording capability will offset that for some projects, but not all.

FWIW, I have the infamous QuadRedVolt Module & Module adapter sitting in my garage but it doesn't bother me because I still got a great deal on that package - and I agreed to it of my own free will.

Cheers - #19

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I get that people may not be excited about the XL Module. But I think it's a plus. Most people aren't aware that it also takes Redvoits, which are common. Used by itself it provides for a very lightweight camera solution, and may be a necessary option as any new side handle is likely to not take revolts. Put the Revolt expander on and run 2 revolts or allow for revolt hot swapping. If it was a V-mount that would be a drag as I'm all Anton Bauer based. I probably won't use it often, but it will be in the kit when I need it. It also provides accessory power. Which was a major issue with the seldom used quad revolt module and the potentially more useful dual module. So, a useful niche for me.

One correction... a bit of a nit but an important one: the new Revolt XL Module will not accommodate two Revolts; according to an earlier post by RED, it only has one set of contacts. Thus, either one Revolt or one Revolt XL.

 

[Jeff Garton]

Sorry I wasn't clearer, but I was not inferring it took two revolts. I was discussing hot-swapping using one in the XL module and one in the Revolt expander. Yes it clearly has one set of contacts, which to me is how it would be useful.

 

[Stacey Spears]

I get that people may not be excited about the XL Module.

I guess I am one of the few who is excited about the XL Module. I used V-Mounts up until the XL Module came out for the Epic. I never used the quad battery module + module adapter because it made the camera too long while the XL module keeps it compact. I do wish the XL batteries charged faster and lasted longer.

One of the things that really hurt is how the price of the camera went down overnight to $17,000 (in my case Epic-M)

It could have been worse, they could have said the new Weapon MG is $34.5k and there is no trade-in.

 

[Andy Corleone]

I guess I am one of the few who is excited about the XL Module. I used V-Mounts up until the XL Module came out for the Epic. I never used the quad battery module + module adapter because it made the camera too long while the XL module keeps it compact. I do wish the XL batteries charged faster and lasted longer.



It could have been worse, they could have said the new Weapon MG is $34.5k and there is no trade-in.

Yep, but what is the point of a trade in program if you are suppose to sell the camera for more money. This Weapon trade in Program doesn't make sense. it only help to depreciate the value of not even years old Epic Dragons.

C300 was available to buy on January 2012 price used was strong only until a couple weeks that the price went down with the annulment of the new MKII version.

If RED was planing to launch the weapon less than a year of having available the Dragon something is going wrong here.

This is the situation: We don't know when the camera really will be available to the US (masses), We need to send now $5,000 to guarantee priority for a trade in program that is not really attractive. You tell me if I'm wrong

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

The marketplace for professional motion cameras is incredibly dynamic these days. As far as I can tell, all the manufacturers are struggling to strike a balance between keeping up with the competition and protecting their customer's investments. No one company controls that marketplace or is uniquely responsible for it's trajectory. Throwing RED under the bus because their strategy for coping with the pace of change is not always perfect is unfair in my book. As others have noted - at least they have an upgrade program that takes some of the sting out.

Cheers - #19

 

[Brent Carter]

Andy, we have been shipping DRAGON cameras since Aug 2013. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Traditionally, people have seen the seller's market to be minimally affected by a RED "trade in" value. If anything, our value would represent the articial floor of what you could resell for, not a ceiling. The good news is, you can see our upgrade program as unattractive and continue to happily shoot on your existing camera.

The response we are getting by number of deposits indicates a ton of people are extremely excited about the trade-in program. But, we know we cannot please all the people all the time. If we made a 22K camera that fits in your pocket and has 10,000FPS and we pay you $1000 to take it from us, someone would be upset that we did not include a lens as well.

 

[ignition]

Andy, we have been shipping DRAGON cameras since Aug 2013. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Traditionally, people have seen the seller's market to be minimally affected by a RED "trade in" value. If anything, our value would represent the articial floor of what you could resell for, not a ceiling. The good news is, you can see our upgrade program as unattractive and continue to happily shoot on your existing camera.

The response we are getting by number of deposits indicates a ton of people are extremely excited about the trade-in program. But, we know we cannot please all the people all the time. If we made a 22K camera that fits in your pocket and has 10,000FPS and we pay you $1000 to take it from us, someone would be upset that we did not include a lens as well.

So true. Shoot with what you have, make sound financial decisions (according to YOU) on the upgrade path, and understand RED has emerged from a 'disruptor' to a serious player trying to build a sustainable business. That means all of us, along for the journey, need to broach their commercial pathway against our own commercial and creative objectives. I understand how this presents friction for some. Yet it infuriates me that early adopters (and I'm amongst them, from Red One days) somehow expect the company will keep cutting them favors that erode a wholly acceptable commercial model simply because I play "the fan card".

For the love of God let RED focus on it's commercial growth, entirely necessary going forward to compete with Arri, BM, Aja, etc. in a highly competitive market. If your rule of thumb is your hip pocket first, there's plenty of alternatives now. I for one do not want to see RED continue to run their business like a 'penny stock', but rather continue to focus on the higher end of digital capture and production and bring those of us who appreciate it along for the ride.

Have you ever walked into an Apple store and demanded they cut you a better deal because you've bought their products since 2006?

Have you even tried to execute this rationale on companies like Arri?

My confidence in my original Red One investment has been fairly much restored by RED's NAB 2015 decision to keep pushing forward into high end production cameras, and yet their business model admirably continues to provide upgrade pathways and credit trade-ins to accommodate their existing user base, acknowledging their early adopter roots.

Stop complaining about specs, features, upgrade pathways and prices; if you haven't made amazing films (or experienced great ROI in rentals etc.) on RED's equipment in the last eight years the problem is you, not the company. Sorry for being so brutal....

 

[Elsie N]

So true. Shoot with what you have, make sound financial decisions (according to YOU) on the upgrade path, and understand RED has emerged from a 'disruptor' to a serious player trying to build a sustainable business. That means all of us, along for the journey, need to broach their commercial pathway against our own commercial and creative objectives. I understand how this presents friction for some. Yet it infuriates me that early adopters (and I'm amongst them, from Red One days) somehow expect the company will keep cutting them favors that erode a wholly acceptable commercial model simply because I play "the fan card".

For the love of God let RED focus on it's commercial growth, entirely necessary going forward to compete with Arri, BM, Aja, etc. in a highly competitive market. If your rule of thumb is your hip pocket first, there's plenty of alternatives now. I for one do not want to see RED continue to run their business like a 'penny stock', but rather continue to focus on the higher end of digital capture and production and bring those of us who appreciate it along for the ride.

Have you ever walked into an Apple store and demanded they cut you a better deal because you've bought their products since 2006?

Have you even tried to execute this rationale on companies like Arri?

My confidence in my original Red One investment has been fairly much restored by RED's NAB 2015 decision to keep pushing forward into high end production cameras, and yet their business model admirably continues to provide upgrade pathways and credit trade-ins to accommodate their existing user base, acknowledging their early adopter roots.

Stop complaining about specs, features, upgrade pathways and prices; if you haven't made amazing films (or experienced great ROI in rentals etc.) on RED's equipment in the last eight years the problem is you, not the company. Sorry for being so brutal....

To sum up... Go Big or Stay Home '-)