Challenge getting Scarlet to function fully

[Brant Hadfield]

I have received my Scarlet, and am waiting on the side handle. I do not plan to purchase the Touchscreen (my monitor is a much better monitor), and have not decided on Redmote. It appears I may have difficulty getting my Scarlet fully operational even when the side handle appears. It is my understanding (having just read it on a forum) that I will not be able to activate the menu for the first time on the Scarlet body with only the side handle, whenever it finally arrives.

I also understand that with shipped firmware 2.0.5, there is no way to make the menu appear using only camera or side SSD buttons. Further, I understand that with Beta firmware 2.0.8 it is possible to force user settings that will allow shortcuts with a combination of buttons on the body and side SSD module. Another Red user has posted a downloadable file that forces those settings on the existing buttons.

But, if my understanding is correct, I must use a formatted SSD card to upgrade the firmware from 2.0.5 to 2.0.8.

So how can I format a brand new SSD card without a menu? Is there a way to format it with the reader and a computer, so that the camera will accept the firmware upgrade on the card?

And, has firmware 2.0.8 shown itself reliable for Scarlet users?

It seems a fail-safe, emergency access for some level of menu control using body or SSD module buttons would have been an obvious design feature. There could be many unforeseen circumstances or failures that would make such a feature imperative.

 

[Andy White]

I think the assumption really has been that everyone gets a touchscreen - I think even Epic owners that don't use the touchscreen have one.

It's only recently that Scarlet owners have been debating getting a touch or not.

But, I agree, in your case, it's a problem.

Maybe reach out to other Scarlet or Epic owners in your area? You just need a very short time in order to set up your other monitor... but I don't know on full functionality with just the side handle alone.

 

[Arnold F.]

Well put. As an aside, while I did have apprehensions about ordering the Redmote I did so anyway, and I expect not to regret it - I also got the Sidehandle. What I am having second thoughts about is the Touchscreen. I already have the high end TVLogic and the DP4 EVF, making the only advantage to the Touchscreen (that I know of) is that it is a pleasant interface. With two other perfectly good ways to control the camera, I wonder if the $1700 for a Touchscreen would be better used for a mattebox, nice lens or Glidecam.

I have received my Scarlet, and am waiting on the side handle. I do not plan to purchase the Touchscreen (my monitor is a much better monitor), and have not decided on Redmote. It appears I may have difficulty getting my Scarlet fully operational even when the side handle appears. It is my understanding (having just read it on a forum) that I will not be able to activate the menu for the first time on the Scarlet body with only side the handle, whenever it finally arrives.

I also understand that with shipped firmware 2.0.5, there is no way to make the menu appear using only camera or side SSD buttons. Further, I understand that with Beta firmware 2.0.8 it is possible to force user settings that will allow shortcuts with a combination of buttons on the body and side SSD module. Another Red user has posted a downloadable file that forces those settings on the existing buttons.

But, if my understanding is correct, I must use a formatted SSD card to upgrade the firmware from 2.0.5 to 2.0.8.

So how can I format a brand new SSD card without a menu? Is there a way to format it with the reader and a computer, so that the camera will accept the firmware upgrade on the card?

And, has firmware 2.0.8 shown itself reliable for Scarlet users?

It seems a fail-safe, emergency access for some level of menu control using body or SSD module buttons would have been an obvious design feature. There could be many unforeseen circumstances or failures that would make such a feature imperative.

 

[Brant Hadfield]

I think the assumption really has been that everyone gets a touchscreen - I think even Epic owners that don't use the touchscreen have one.

It's only recently that Scarlet owners have been debating getting a touch or not.

But, I agree, in your case, it's a problem.

Maybe reach out to other Scarlet or Epic owners in your area? You just need a very short time in order to set up your other monitor... but I don't know on full functionality with just the side handle alone.

I agree, and it seems like an odd assumption. Critical focus is tough enough for 4k even with an outstanding monitor like my 5.6" TV Logic. I don't need two monitors attached ot my rig, and a touchscreen which is a challenge to use in bright light and sometimes slow to respond or a bit clumsy in use. Anyway, I don't want to start a debate about the merits of the touch screen. But this is an engineering loop I find myself in. I can probably find someone who can help me out, but it seems odd I would have to do that to make this camera system function fully.

 

[Scott Crawley]

I already have the high end TVLogic and the DP4 EVF, making the only advantage to the Touchscreen (that I know of) is that it is a pleasant interface. With two other perfectly good ways to control the camera, I wonder if the $1700 for a Touchscreen would be better used for a mattebox, nice lens or Glidecam.

The experience of users such as the OP's seem to suggest that it is more useful than just a pleasant interface, but is meant more as the primary means of controling the camera. It would seem that the side handle and Redmote are secondary adjuncts to rather than replacements for the touchscreen. Am I to understand that there is currently no means to display the menus on monitors other than Red touchscreens? It would seem that a future firmware update could be made to make that possible.

 

[Kip Kubin]

Bad design... that should be fixed.

Not fun to buy something you'll never use....or use once and tuck away and never use again.

 

[Arnold F.]

At the moment this seems true, at least for initially setting up the camera, unless they have designed it such that you can never see the menu except on their own monitor, which would be both unprofessional and disappointing (and, I hope, not the case).

The experience of users such as the OP's seem to suggest that it is more useful than just a pleasant interface, but is meant more as the primary means of controling the camera. It would seem that the side handle and Redmote are secondary adjuncts to rather than replacements for the touchscreen. Am I to understand that there is currently no means to display the menus on monitors other than Red touchscreens? It would seem that a future firmware update could be made to make that possible.

 

[Brant Hadfield]

At the moment this seems true, at least for initially setting up the camera, unless they have designed it such that you can never see the menu except on their own monitor, which would be both unprofessional and disappointing (and, I hope, not the case).

No worries about the menu on other monitors. It can be viewed on any reference monitor if it is active.

 

[John Wee]

And then when you reflash the firmware, u are back on step one. Operating and owning a bleeding edge piece of equipment like the red is not cheap. They are many hidden cost and quirks that will be thrown at us all the time.

 

[Arnold F.]

I can understand the high costs of cinematography. I admit to having trouble understanding why the more expensive a camera it is, the less "fully cooked" it is. I sometimes wonder if I will be paying someone to be their beta tester, in a way.

And then when you reflash the firmware, u are back on step one. Operating and owning a bleeding edge piece of equipment like the red is not cheap. They are many hidden cost and quirks that will be thrown at us all the time.

 

[Brant Hadfield]

And then when you reflash the firmware, u are back on step one. Operating and owning a bleeding edge piece of equipment like the red is not cheap. They are many hidden cost and quirks that will be thrown at us all the time.

First, Red have addressed this to a certain degree, but starting with Firmware 2.0.8

Secondly, this is not an issue of cost, John. I simply do not want a touch screen monitor, as the one I rely on for reference is far superior in resolution and image quality. There are many people who do not use the touch screen or prefer not to. I am one of them. This is an engineering/design issue. Being a pilot I have a strong fondness for simple solutions to vital functions, with a fail-safe backup. And I like tactile, mechanical buttons which respond instantly, without another complicated piece of equipment on top of an already complicated piece of equipment to process my request. There should be a way of activating the menu that does not rely on a variety of separate devices. Given the sophistication of this equipment, I seriously doubt it a huge engineering hurdle.

 

[John Wee]

Red doesn't fall into the traditional camera realm. One can get a far more complete "camera" say with the C300 and F3. Example, we have to fork out almost $3k just to get XLR inputs (pro module). However, those cameras are often a one life camera, whereas we will have the advantage of updated gamma, sensor upgrade ....etc.

 

[Arnold F.]

This remains to be seen. I'm not saying it's not true, only that it's not true till it is, and that's not yet. If the Scarlet absolutely cannot handle more data (for higher frame rates), as I think I've read, then it's not what I'd call "future proof." Sorry, Brant, I've taken this thread away from it's initial thoughts so I'll stop.

Red doesn't fall into the traditional camera realm. One can get a far more complete "camera" say with the C300 and F3. Example, we have to fork out almost $3k just to get XLR inputs (pro module). However, those cameras are often a one life camera, whereas we will have the advantage of updated gamma, sensor upgrade ....etc.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

You may be able to just format the REDMAG in a computer (Scarlet formarts them MBR, FAT32) and copy the force_upgrade folder and put that in your Scarlet if you want to upgrade your firmware. As for the control options, seems like the REDMOTE offers the most control options at a price much lower than the sidehandle or touchscreen. You can control pretty much everything with the redmote both as a "remote" control for the LCD menus and a "local" controller for adjusting and viewing most options independent of LCD menus if you want to keep your monitors clean from menus.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

Red doesn't fall into the traditional camera realm. One can get a far more complete "camera" say with the C300 and F3. Example, we have to fork out almost $3k just to get XLR inputs (pro module). However, those cameras are often a one life camera, whereas we will have the advantage of updated gamma, sensor upgrade ....etc.

$3k? 1/8" TRS to XLR cables are only $8 at BH or $45 from RED.

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

2.0.8 wasn't reliable enough for me. Mine crashed more, luckily when mine got sent back to RED for evaluation they re-booted 2.0.5.

Thats the odd thing, you buy a camera, they add an upgrade to make it better but it isn't recommended for production. I understand it's in testing but...It's hard buying something to make a living with and upgrading and being told it's not for production. I'm not angry at RED for this, I just don't plan to upgrade to the newest firmware every time it comes out if I have a big job/jobs coming up since I don't think you can go backwards.

 

[Brant Hadfield]

Well I guess that does it for me, no updating to 2.0.8 in order to get the ability to load preset user functions, and I will have to call in help when my side handle comes in to get the menu to appear. Thank you for being a Beta tester, and giving me the warning. Too bad we can't even flash it back to the firmware that was shipped, but have to go back to 2.0.2.

2.0.8 wasn't reliable enough for me. Mine crashed more, luckily when mine got sent back to RED for evaluation they re-booted 2.0.5.

Thats the odd thing, you buy a camera, they add an upgrade to make it better but it isn't recommended for production. I understand it's in testing but...It's hard buying something to make a living with and upgrading and being told it's not for production. I'm not angry at RED for this, I just don't plan to upgrade to the newest firmware every time it comes out if I have a big job/jobs coming up since I don't think you can go backwards.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

Too bad we can't even flash it back to the firmware that was shipped, but have to go back to 2.0.2.

That doesn't sound right, what makes you say that? I don't think you can even get firmware 2.0.2 for Scarlet.

 

[Brant Hadfield]

That doesn't sound right, what makes you say that? I don't think you can even get firmware 2.0.2 for Scarlet.

You are correct! Thank you, I misread the note about not being able to revert to a firmware earlier than 2.0.2, mistook the meaning.

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

No problem, I was interested myself since I upgraded to 2.0.8 and was having the issue where when you use 1:1 mode, after exiting 1:1 there would be tearing/scan issues with the monitor display ( left side of image would wrap to right etc) until reboot. I was thinking of reinstalling or downgrading but now I'm not having as much luck reproducing it, so hopefully it doesn't come back.