- Banned
- #61
Mike Nagel
Banned
the other thing - IMO - pulling Soderberg and Fincher into color discussion works contra RED... now the movies (storytelling wise are what they are good, great or bad) but from a color perspective, what they've done on RED:
Soderberg's movies look absolutely horrible. Straight out of RCX v1. The yellow green debayer haze (--> THE most pronounced RED attribute since day 1) everywhere. HORRIBLE. somebody introduce him to a color chart. and davinci. its free. student movies look better.
Fincher's best looking movie was SE7EN - that's his benchmark. it is known how that was done. I've not seen a movie shot on digital from him that comes remotely close to that. Social Network - while a good movie - had not so great color. my guess, due to not optimal CS. Or not the CS that we all got to enjoy years later. So The R1MX looked looked like that for Fincher in 2010. OTOH, CO3 made R1MX footage look much better in 2010 with same available CS - those are very good colorists, though (especially for RED footage).
Girl with the Dragon Tattoo - Epic MX - same exact issues. Yellow haze. And no tungsten in sight. (Jeff Cronenweth)
Gone Girl (Jeff Cronenweth, Dragon), while (now) clean/neutral, is one of those examples that u can cite just because u can shoot now "available light" only with ur new cam, doesn't mean it's beneficial (Terrence Malick is calling). Underlit faces everywhere. Who tells ur story ? The actors. With their face usually.
Jeff Cronenweth is a great DP. That's not the cause.
One thing that Arri has (besides color) is that with Arri u do not have to go through a trial and error evolution of new color science iterations, new OLPFs, new gimmicks to treat issues, new (paid) hardware upgrades to fix something that was promoted not to be there - in order to finally get the full potential of the sensor that u bought 3 years ago... years later u can finally scrap out the best out of a sensor, but no one in the history of filmmakers has gone back and re-graded a finished project. It's done, that ship has sailed. So while it's great that u delivered in 4K, that new CS that just came out would have improved ur project much more than the 4K delivery - which no festival plays, not even major theater releases. Yet. And when they all do ur short film is 20 years old.
Although this evolution is absolutely welcome for new projects, it'd be great to already have the bulk of the R&D evolution done when a new sensor comes out.
But RED moves with light speed when it comes to new hardware innovations... ;-))))
A few movies that come to mind that showed full RED potential (top of my head) - with RED as main cam:
Flight (MX) - Light Iron
Prometheus (MX) - CO3
Straight Outta Compton (Dragon)
let's see if LI can really get something going on their PV Dragons that works for all kinds of RED footage and shooting scenarios consistently and hopefully we will get to see some of that treatment workflow...
Soderberg's movies look absolutely horrible. Straight out of RCX v1. The yellow green debayer haze (--> THE most pronounced RED attribute since day 1) everywhere. HORRIBLE. somebody introduce him to a color chart. and davinci. its free. student movies look better.
Fincher's best looking movie was SE7EN - that's his benchmark. it is known how that was done. I've not seen a movie shot on digital from him that comes remotely close to that. Social Network - while a good movie - had not so great color. my guess, due to not optimal CS. Or not the CS that we all got to enjoy years later. So The R1MX looked looked like that for Fincher in 2010. OTOH, CO3 made R1MX footage look much better in 2010 with same available CS - those are very good colorists, though (especially for RED footage).
Girl with the Dragon Tattoo - Epic MX - same exact issues. Yellow haze. And no tungsten in sight. (Jeff Cronenweth)
Gone Girl (Jeff Cronenweth, Dragon), while (now) clean/neutral, is one of those examples that u can cite just because u can shoot now "available light" only with ur new cam, doesn't mean it's beneficial (Terrence Malick is calling). Underlit faces everywhere. Who tells ur story ? The actors. With their face usually.
Jeff Cronenweth is a great DP. That's not the cause.
One thing that Arri has (besides color) is that with Arri u do not have to go through a trial and error evolution of new color science iterations, new OLPFs, new gimmicks to treat issues, new (paid) hardware upgrades to fix something that was promoted not to be there - in order to finally get the full potential of the sensor that u bought 3 years ago... years later u can finally scrap out the best out of a sensor, but no one in the history of filmmakers has gone back and re-graded a finished project. It's done, that ship has sailed. So while it's great that u delivered in 4K, that new CS that just came out would have improved ur project much more than the 4K delivery - which no festival plays, not even major theater releases. Yet. And when they all do ur short film is 20 years old.
Although this evolution is absolutely welcome for new projects, it'd be great to already have the bulk of the R&D evolution done when a new sensor comes out.
But RED moves with light speed when it comes to new hardware innovations... ;-))))
A few movies that come to mind that showed full RED potential (top of my head) - with RED as main cam:
Flight (MX) - Light Iron
Prometheus (MX) - CO3
Straight Outta Compton (Dragon)
let's see if LI can really get something going on their PV Dragons that works for all kinds of RED footage and shooting scenarios consistently and hopefully we will get to see some of that treatment workflow...
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