Cancel that thought...

[Wayne Morellini]

I have suggested this before, and easy ways to do it, including summaries from users for the wiki with a gate keeper moderators who approves them, excellent Patrick. Look up my posts in recent months you will find a summary there.

Elsie, you will find a lot more answers you didn't know a lot quicker with a wiki, and a lot more time for interesting discussions due to less repeat chatter, and the moderators will have less overall work. I'd love to be a moderator, but all that work you have to do (really, slow at it, and have important things on my plate, like trying to find a team to build a revolutionary camera).

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Elsie, we use real names around here. I would like to remain anonymous myself, cool, but not allowed, and I notice two people (both engineers) with hidden names. I wish to remain anonymous myself for the same reason the engineers do, professional reputation, so you can kick back and relax (like I still do) but without reputation destroying knocks from morons I ussually get.

So, one question. What is the N?

 

[Elsie N]

...

Elsie, you will find a lot more answers you didn't know a lot quicker with a wiki, and a lot more time for interesting discussions due to less repeat chatter, and the moderators will have less overall work. I'd love to be a moderator, but all that work you have to do (really, slow at it, and have important things on my plate, like trying to find a team to build a revolutionary camera).

Wayne, I think you and I are perfect examples of the problem RED is facing in making Reduser the best place for information for all concerned. If I may take liberties in analyzing you vis a vis Reduser, I think you like order and direct-to-the-point information. You are what I would call knowledge-centric and someone who has a knowledge goal that he actively seeks. A person like myself prefers a more personality driven forum that allows knowledge to find me... serendipity-like. That is, I don't know what I need to know sometimes, and the only way to know that is for someone to make that information available so that I can recognize I need to know that. But I think Reduser satisfies both our needs through the thread system. We don't have to read every thread and can easily tell if they have in them what we need or want in the way of information. Even in a thread, I find it easy to scan page after page of a long thread to glean a nugget. The really short posts are nice and the really long ones are probably more about the writer than the information, so those are easy to skip. (sorry about the lack of whitespace in this post. The computer I'm on isn't allowed to make paragraphs... probably some sort of javascript issue, which I'm blocking at present.)

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Ha, ha, mine are really long because they are full of information (rather than it). Information finding me, sounds like habit of a wait. It is simply, nearly unworkable to search information out (the search function is a bit of a sight). A hint about the wiki and information finding us, my father reads encyclopedias.

Your description of me is fairly accurate, but in a way that seeks better things. Thank you for the compliment Elsie.

 

[Elsie N]

Ha, ha, mine are really long because they are full of information (rather than it). Information finding me, sounds like habit of a wait. It is simply, nearly unworkable to search information out (the search function is a bit of a sight). A hint about the wiki and information finding us, my father reads encyclopedias.

Your description of me is fairly accurate, but in a way that seeks better things. Thank you for the compliment Elsie.

Your father sounds like an interesting man.

EDIT: Oh, and you too, Wayne. '-)

 

[Gunleik Groven]

There was a wiki...

Issue is that people read them as bibles, while there is in fact many ways to get "there", also depending on productiontype.

But I think it would be a good thing to have a thread/discussion outlining workflows. It would need to be pretty strictly moderated. SOmehow my threads haven't become too filled with spam, so I could possibly give it a go.

There was in fact some attempts on "wiki"s early on. But they were in many ways not very valuable IMHO. And then it is bad if they end up as stickies just leading to confusion.

Another issue is that the toolset is a moving target, so I guess for something like this to work, one must be very clear on perspective, productiontypes, toolsets and goal before starting to outline anything too intensively.

But it is an interesting ball to play...

 

[Dan Finlayson]

film

film

I am a fairly young shooter. The first film I shot was s16. The second was on a Red One.

I've learned about digital and film in parallel, having neither as a basis before switching to the other. I consider this very fortunate timing between when I was born and when all this new technology became available.

I prefer film. I like my meter more than a histogram.

Reading through this thread has been frustrating. I'm seeing a lot of people citing camera stats, facts, and figures, and throwing aesthetics out the window to "defend" the red. Why aren't they "defending" film with stats? It sees more colors. In larger gauge formats, it is higher resolution. It's capable of insanely high frame rates. The dynamic range is pretty similar to the Red and Alexa. Obsolescence obsolete? Where will your hard drives been in 80 years? What happens when we go 6k? Not that 35mm film resolves 6k, but I'd rather watch a 6k film scan than an up-res of 4k digital footage.

But at the end of the day, its not the numbers that inform me on my preference of film. I simply like the aesthetics of the final image and the onset workflow. Sometimes, I'll opt for s16 over 35mm.

Who's gonna call me an idiot first?

 

[David Adamic]

God love us all...

Jim

Except the heathens shooting 1k.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Who's gonna call me an idiot first?

I'm not going to call you an idiot but I do think you're off on a few points: the F65 already shoots a wider gamut supposedly than film. Highspeed film needs tons of light and is considerably larger than an epic or even alexa. Comparing Waveforms/Histograms to meters is a non-sensensical comparison. They're two very different tools and one does not exclude the use of the other. That being said I don't really miss that sinking feeling in my stomach waiting for the film to come back to see if it exposed how I intended. And then trying to look at the negative to see if that was a timing issue when it was scanned or the way it was actually shot.

I think though it's a safe bet that in 12 months with Dragon this will all be a moot point since you will probably see RED's color gammut expand pretty dramatically again, hopefully with less cross talk and even more dynamic range. You can always retarget one image to another with a good enough sensor (http://www.filmconvert.com/).

 

[Dan Finlayson]

I'm not going to call you an idiot but I do think you're off on a few points

You are correct about the F65. Why isn't everyone excited about that camera here hahaha
Don't really understand what you're saying about high speed filming... the 435 isn't much bigger than an alexa or an epic depending on the build.
Of course waveforms/histograms are not analogous to a light meter. That's my point - it is a completely different way of working.

And as you are glad that you know what you captured the moment you left the set, I appreciate being able to actually look through a lens, not a delayed video output. Finally the Alexa Studio is bringing this generation of cameras up to speed!

 

[Paul Ellington]

You are correct about the F65. Why isn't everyone excited about that camera here hahaha
Don't really understand what you're saying about high speed filming... the 435 isn't much bigger than an alexa or an epic depending on the build.
Of course waveforms/histograms are not analogous to a light meter. That's my point - it is a completely different way of working.

And as you are glad that you know what you captured the moment you left the set, I appreciate being able to actually look through a lens, not a delayed video output. Finally the Alexa Studio is bringing this generation of cameras up to speed!

...O-K ... Moving on...

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

I am a fairly young shooter. The first film I shot was s16. The second was on a Red One.

I've learned about digital and film in parallel, having neither as a basis before switching to the other. I consider this very fortunate timing between when I was born and when all this new technology became available.

I prefer film. I like my meter more than a histogram.

Reading through this thread has been frustrating. I'm seeing a lot of people citing camera stats, facts, and figures, and throwing aesthetics out the window to "defend" the red. Why aren't they "defending" film with stats? It sees more colors. In larger gauge formats, it is higher resolution. It's capable of insanely high frame rates. The dynamic range is pretty similar to the Red and Alexa. Obsolescence obsolete? Where will your hard drives been in 80 years? What happens when we go 6k? Not that 35mm film resolves 6k, but I'd rather watch a 6k film scan than an up-res of 4k digital footage.

But at the end of the day, its not the numbers that inform me on my preference of film. I simply like the aesthetics of the final image and the onset workflow. Sometimes, I'll opt for s16 over 35mm.

Who's gonna call me an idiot first?

You're definitely not an idiot, but coming from film in the first place all I can say is that as with the CD's from Vinyl and then eventually mp3's - I prefer to listen to a vinyl - but most of the time my stereo is playing mp3's. Simply because it's easier, quicker, lighter, smaller and more affordable.

Film will always be in my heart and I will miss it as much as my first love, but life moves on.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

There was a wiki...

Issue is that people read them as bibles, while there is in fact many ways to get "there", also depending on productiontype.

But I think it would be a good thing to have a thread/discussion outlining workflows. It would need to be pretty strictly moderated. SOmehow my threads haven't become too filled with spam, so I could possibly give it a go.

There was in fact some attempts on "wiki"s early on. But they were in many ways not very valuable IMHO. And then it is bad if they end up as stickies just leading to confusion.

Another issue is that the toolset is a moving target, so I guess for something like this to work, one must be very clear on perspective, productiontypes, toolsets and goal before starting to outline anything too intensively.

But it is an interesting ball to play...

That is why I suggested moderated, it would be strictly so to just let the best on the wiki, or even somebody hired by Red to take information and write the submissions formally.

Multiple different ways is not a problem, you can list under work flows, by camera, workflow A-Z subcategories, and just keep adding. In seventy five years, if it is still there, somebody trying to restore an antique Red One could just look up the work flow and run a PC windows emulator. People take multiple options as confusion, but it is not, it just needs to be broken down into logical categories etc to put it into simple enough order.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

About what is coming. There are some very interesting technologies. Sony is one of the ones to watch, organic sensors, three layer sensors, 100million pixel sensor, soon. As for low light and dynamic range, far beyond what we use. I tried to advise Red years ago, to hook into the right technology licenses, 15 stops is not much compared to what I have seen. 9k is not even much. Low light, a lot better then we have seen yet.

On color gamut, how do you get it up?

The structure in our eyes have overlap in their color response, but if you can get a response without overlap on one type, you get supper saturation, but a sensor, and the Bayer demosiacing, and antialaising filter, are not conducive to this. How much of the 200% color spectrum can they record?