Can Red make a "simple" 2/3" Fixed Scarlet?

[Terry VerHaar]

That is for the Cinema interchangeable lens brain, not the fixed. Previous fixed brain price was $500 more than Cinema model

I guess we are missing on semantics here - I am looking at "brain only" as being without a lens. So, yes, this is the quote for the the interchangeable 2/3" brain.

 

[David Rasberry]

And yet, despite these limitations, people are successfully using it as such, regardless of what people here think of the footage produced by vDSLRs. Besides Canon is listening to DPs. We'll see what they come up with.

Not really. They are mostly used in a very narrow range of niche applications and static shooting styles that play to their strengths. Image quality is not what I was referring to, but limitations in shot length, poor ergonomics, difficulty in following focus on fast action, no SMPTE timecode, etc. etc. etc. Again not a practical day in day out all around motion production camera format. And when they build the large sensor tech into a true motion camera form factor with the normally expected professional features the price will more than double even with no improvement in the video.

Sure they're constrained by physics. But that's not the same as saying they won't solve the problems. I don't know what they have in their research labs, so I can't say they don't have a 6K global-shutter chip that can run at high frame rates and is on the cusp of being manufacturable at commodity prices.

Yes but how are they going to deal with the equivalent of a 165 watt Nvidia GTX480 GPU to do the image processing within a DSLR body? Epic consumes around 60 watts vs about 7 watts for a 5D2. At the current rate of general solid state electronics progress, it will take a few more 18 month Moore's law cycles before the technology can do this if it ever can.

Well, that's true, Red was the first and everyone else has to play catch-up. But with the success of these HD cameras, there's been little incentive to change. That's doesn't mean they aren't developing anything.

I am sure they are too. But at what cost? Mass consumers in general aren't interested in this level of technology, so it won't be showing up in low cost mass consumer products. Good enough for the price is exactly why.

 

[Aaron Newsome]

Hi,

The cost of manufacturing has very little impact on street price. A R1 probably costs under $5k to manufacture, it's the R&D costs to get the product ready to ship that costs the money.

Stephen

Ok, it looks like I'll need to be more specific here. When I said the Scarlet price would be driven by manufacture costs, I meant the TOTAL cost to bring it to market, build it, design it or whatever.

Whatever Nikon and Canon are doing will NOT affect the costs of what it takes to get Scarlet to the market. This means that whatever Nikon and Canon release, will not affect the end user price of the Scarlet.

I think that should cover it.

 

[Stephen Matthews]

I think you are still forgetting that the original 3k scarlet for 3k was a much different camera. The stats and features and modularity were added and the camera changed entirely, so the 3k price was for an entirely different camera that does not exist and never did.
this .....
http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2008/04/redscarlet.jpg

or this....
http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/red-scarlet-2-3_2.jpg

price changes were for a reason form factor, features, frame rates, and above all modularity and accessory compatibility with other red cam's.

I have a feeling of deja vu, like I made this post before.....

edit: actually it doesn't matter which one you want because the old one was the concept cam, out of it came the new scarlet, the reason was Jim's idea of the modular line and because of the outpouring for features from users on this site and scarlet user. Thing is it seems there are a fair amount of people who were late to the party and want to add their ideas now for the current camera's under development which to me for the most part seems like it is far too late for any back seat engineering.

 

[Vladimir Cassel]

I think you are still forgetting that the original 3k scarlet for 3k was a much different camera. The stats and features and modularity were added and the camera changed entirely, so the 3k price was for an entirely different camera that does not exist and never did.
this .....
http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2008/04/redscarlet.jpg

or this....
http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/red-scarlet-2-3_2.jpg

price changes were for a reason form factor, features, frame rates, and above all modularity and accessory compatibility with other red cam's.

I have a feeling of deja vu, like I made this post before.....

edit: actually it doesn't matter which one you want because the old one was the concept cam, out of it came the new scarlet, the reason was Jim's idea of the modular line and because of the outpouring for features from users on this site and scarlet user. Thing is it seems there are a fair amount of people who were late to the party and want to add their ideas now for the current camera's under development which to me for the most part seems like it is far too late for any back seat engineering.

I wouldn't call speculating or wondering in a forum "back seat engineering." Sheesh! :banghead:

 

[Stephen Matthews]

just saying at this point to try and put out ideas like "make a whole new cam with less features and release it before the one you have been working on for years" isn't very helpful.

like I said the reason scarlet and all the red cams are they way they are is from input but it has to constructive and helpful and I'm sorry but this just seems like pointless distractions at this point. but you are right we are all entitled to our opinions and to say what's on our minds, I'm just doing that and so are the others on here.

keep on dreaming

 

[Vladimir Cassel]

just saying at this point to try and put out ideas like "make a whole new cam with less features and release it before the one you have been working on for years" is very helpful.

like I said the reason scarlet and all the red cams are they way they are is from input but it has to constructive and helpful and I'm sorry but this just seems like pointless distractions at this point. but you are right we are all entitled to our opinions and to say what's on our minds, I'm just doing that and so are the others on here.

Ain't much to be distracted from but thumb twiddlin' lately.

keep on dreaming

Will do :smiley:

 

[Stephen Matthews]

You're right not much going on for us lately, though I was talking about red and their employee's (like fud would really distract them for long). Happy you didn't take the keep dreaming the wrong way, I meant it in a good way but when I re-read it in context it seems like I'm being sarcastic.

 

[Vladimir Cassel]

You're right not much going on for us lately, though I was talking about red and their employee's (like fud would really distract them for long). Happy you didn't take the keep dreaming the wrong way, I meant it in a good way but when I re-read it in context it seems like I'm being sarcastic.

No worries. I'm not here looking to start problems with anyone. Just a sorta RED fanboy whose on the fence about the possibility of taking on the long haul of mounting debt and student loans to get a Scarlet.

 

[Stephen Matthews]

job job job, I worked the whole summer and part time during school to pay 6k yes 6k for a hd100u back in the day. That's what you have to do if you really want something buckle down and save up for it if you are lucky enough to still be living at home it will be even easier. Construction landscaping and other labor intensive jobs pay very good you can make a few thousand a month if you are with the right crew.

edit: yeah but those student loans can really hamper the process, hence why I never took a loan and couldn't attend film school (the school I wanted to go to was something like 45k a year... no thanks) we each have our own route but if you really want it you'll find a way to afford it.

 

[Stephen Gentle]

Hi,

There is a pretty good chance that the price of fixed Scarlet will fall to it's original sub $3k price by the time it gets released, it's already 2 years behind schedule. Nikon / Canon now have DSLR's to compete with it. Red is no longer the only game in town.

Stephen

Although the DLSR guys seem to like to think that DSLRs compete with everything, I don't really think that Scarlet is competing with them at all. In my opinion, it's the 2/3" cameras, as well as cameras like the EX1 and EX3 that it is directly competing against, but at a price where it's within reach of DSLR users who want to step up.

 

[Robert Rogoz]

As an EX1 user I must say I gave up on this camera. I am utterly turned off by the marketing hype and a complete lack of delivery. Any discussions about this camera is pointless, as is what it's supposed to compete with, because this camera is not being produced and sold.

 

[Gary Paul Walker]

As an EX1 user I must say I gave up on this camera. I am utterly turned off by the marketing hype and a complete lack of delivery. Any discussions about this camera is pointless, as is what it's supposed to compete with, because this camera is not being produced and sold.

Welcome to the forum Robert, and thanks for joining to tell us that you're turned off by the camera. I agree that its pointless to have a forum when a camera is yet to be released.
Its really annoying to be able to talk to people like Jim and actually be involved in the development of the camera. Very annoying RED hype the EPIC and Scarlet as much as they do - I cant go a single day without seeing billboards of supermodels holding the cameras telling us we need them, and then there are all those television adverts.
In fact, as professional and amatures alike we should all be oblivious to facets of the camera until it is released and someone shows us how to use it.

or I could be wrong.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

As an EX1 user I must say I gave up on this camera. I am utterly turned off by the marketing hype and a complete lack of delivery. Any discussions about this camera is pointless, as is what it's supposed to compete with, because this camera is not being produced and sold.

I'll bet you your EX-1 you buy this camera when it comes out. :thumbsup:

 

[jonathan homer vargas]

some of you know how long record run the escarlet and if heated as dslr

 

[David Rasberry]

some of you know how long record run the escarlet and if heated as dslr

These are true motion picture cameras that will run as long as storage capacity of your media and battery life allow.
No heat issues except under the most extreme circumstances.
With the dual battery module and the dual CF module, media and batteries can be hot swapped for continuous operation for hours. So it really depends on how you configure the camera.
No comparison with a DSLR at all.

 

[Stephen Gentle]

some of you know how long record run the escarlet and if heated as dslr

I'm not sure I understand your question (or statement?). Do you mean something like "Does anyone know how long Scarlet can record continuously for, and whether it will have heat problems like DSLRs?"

If so: the maximum time Scarlet can record for depends on the media you use. With something like a RED-Drive or an SSD module, it's possible you could record a shot that was more than an hour long. As for heat problems - the Scarlet prototypes have a sealed cooling section. It should easily keep it cool enough. It also means that you can open that section and easily clean it and replace the fan without fear of damaging any components.

 

[Jim Klatt]

Although the DLSR guys seem to like to think that DSLRs compete with everything, I don't really think that Scarlet is competing with them at all. In my opinion, it's the 2/3" cameras, as well as cameras like the EX1 and EX3 that it is directly competing against, but at a price where it's within reach of DSLR users who want to step up.

To me it is(or was). We sold our EX1 for a 5d. If there were no HDslr's, then we would be pining for a Scarlet. But those days are over.

 

[David Rasberry]

To me it is(or was). We sold our EX1 for a 5d. If there were no HDslr's, then we would be pining for a Scarlet. But those days are over.

If you are primarily interested in a stills camera and video is a secondary consideration, 2/3" Scarlet won't be your first choice.
If you are obsessed with 35mm shallow dof at the expense of every other aspect of image quality and practical functionality as a motion picture camera then Scarlet won't be your first choice.
If your most basic camera package budget is under $6k, then Scarlet is realistically out of your price range.
If you need/want a camera now, obviously you will have to buy something else.
If 1080p HD video that resolves less than 540 TV lines vertical is "good enough" then a DSLR is all you need.

On the other hand Scarlet 2/3" will be well worth the wait if:

You want a truly flexible practical motion picture camera without serious functional compromises.
You appreciate the big differences in image quality and grading flexibility that a raw format camera shooting motion at 2-1/2 times HD resolution can offer.
You want the best possible 2k digital cinema format finish available from a sub $30k camera. Scarlet will downscale to fully resolved 1:85 and 2.35 cinemascope 2k cinema formats with a finished resolution in excess of 1150 lines vertical, beyond the resolution of 2k cinema projectors.
You want the potential to finish in higher than HD resolutions for specialty applications like digital signage for multi-display high resolution video walls used for advertising and event staging.
You want the flexibility to shoot and ramp between ultra slow frame rates in the time lapse range to high frame rate slow motion.
You need to shoot continuously for long periods of time.
You need/want a superb quality EVF that makes focusing accuratelyby eye in difficult circumstances easy and simultaneous onset monitoring to external displays.
You need professional video camera features like genlock, SMPTE timecode, high quality audio recording in camera.
You want fully programmable step and repeat robotic camera control including all lens functions for stop motion, animation, motion capture effects work.
You appreciate the 2/3"/16mm image size format for its general utility and all around flexibility. It is the most popular professional motion production format in the world.
You appreciate the ability to use fast broad range compact zoom lenses for fast action run and gun documentary situations.
You want to pack a compact light weight extremely robust camera and lens system into remote areas for nature shooting where the long lenses required for 35mm would be larger than and outweigh the complete package for 2/3".

I could go on, but you get the point. There is nothing even remotely like Scarlet on the horizon and it will be an extremely competitive and capable camera system whenever it hits the market. I too am frustrated by the delays, but when you are developing a complex highly capable camera system that is unlike any ever built before, there are bound to be some snags. If Red followed the same policies as the big guys you would not even have heard of Scarlet yet. But the open development process, warts and all, will ultimately result in a camera with performance and features designed from the ground up by and for serious cinematographers .

 

[Jim Retar]

There is nothing even remotely like Scarlet on the horizon

How can you possibly know this?

Any realistic Scarlet follower must now accept that we are at least 6 months away from launch and the 2nd generation DSLRs and large sensor cameras are on the way.

It is obvious that the Scarlet is (on paper) better than any 1st generation DSLR....... with the exception of the sensor size and low light.... but to think that competition is not on the way is naive.