Can Red bundle Scarlet with SDXC Module instead of CF Module?

[Nick D]

Is there support for bundling an SDXC Module option instead of CF Module with the Scarlet Fixed kit?

 

[Nick D]

2 questions for responders:

1. Do you prefer SDXC or CF Module for Scarlet?

2. Have you at least once NOT purchased professional or consumer product from Sony or Panasonic due to proprietary Memory standards?
Yes (Yes, I have not purchased) / No (No, I have always invested in them anyway)

Maybe we can give Red some free market research (My answers are 1. SDXC 2. Yes)

 

[Kenneth Elkington]

SDXC is vaporware at this point. The fact that there are few to no shipping products that support it or actual memory cards, RED doesn't have a reason to ship with SDXC at launch.

That said, SDXC's specs are theoretical, not actual. I doubt we'll be seeing cards that can do 36 MB/s in the next year, let alone 100 MB/s to record RC100.

 

[Nick D]

SDXC is vaporware at this point. The fact that there are few to no shipping products that support it or actual memory cards, RED doesn't have a reason to ship with SDXC at launch.

That said, SDXC's specs are theoretical, not actual. I doubt we'll be seeing cards that can do 36 MB/s in the next year, let alone 100 MB/s to record RC100.

SDXC standard is backward compatible with SD Memory (which is not vaporware), so it offers the flexibility of both media at far reduced pricing...

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

The big thing to consider here is that SDHC, SDXC, CF, C.Fast, etc.. are all based on the same NAND FLASH memory chips. By choosing SD card formats, we are restricting the amount of space available in the packaging to incorporate other circuitry such as high performance memory controllers or whatever else is needed.

SDXC may be a good technology at a future date. However, it's new and all of its benefits are purely hypothetical. There are only a couple SDXC products on the market at this time and they are way too slow for use with the RED One or other upcoming cameras from RED.

The RED guys have said they are considering other formats. IMO, C.Fast makes the most sense for compact removable storage. It's capable of being several times faster than SDXC and and gives more physical space in which to stuff your components.

There are currently no SDHC products fast enough to use with RED. If there were, we would already have a solution for using them.

 

[Kenneth Elkington]

SDXC standard is backward compatible with SD Memory (which is not vaporware), so it offers the flexibility of both media at far reduced pricing...

That doesn't rectify the low data rates on SD cards. The Red One operates at a minimum of 28 MB/s with Scarlet and Epic slated to do a whole lot more. The fastest SD cards theses days do 10 MB/s. That's why it's not a viable alternative.

 

[Nick D]

Jeff, thanks for the feedback- you are a wealth of information.

Do you know what the minimum sustained data rate required for the media that's required for Scarlet at proposed frame rates and Redcode 42 or above?

Per the SD Association, "SDXC specification provides up to 2
terabytes storage capacity and accelerates SD interface read/write speeds to 104
megabytes per second this year, with a road map to 300 megabytes per second."

I'm particularly interested in minimum sustained data rates for 60fps for action sports and 3D...

 

[Kenneth Elkington]

Those are speeds that the standard is capable of, and not what the shipping memory cards will do. It's like how SATA III can do something like 3 GB/s, but actual hard drives can only do sustained reads under 500 MB/s(on a really really good day).

 

[Nick D]

Another new Development for Compact Flash:

"The CompactFlash Association has announced the availability of its new CF5.0 specification, offering greater capacities and speeds. Enabling 48-bit support (as against the current 28-bit), the new specification theoretically allows for an increase in the maximum capacity to 144 petabytes (1PB = 1000 terabytes), up from the current limitation of 137GB, as well as data transfer speeds of up to 32MB/s. Although it is primarily aimed at the camcorder market, we expect to see compatibility added to future HD-enabled DSLRs."

Sounds pretty good to me.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Nick,

Not sure where you pulled that quote about CF 5.0 from, but it's way off the mark.

I would expect the new cameras to ship with CF interfaces as an option -- side CF module. There is also a CF slot on the brain itself, however, depending on release timing, I could see that becoming a C.Fast slot. Perhaps that's a bit optimistic, but ATAPI-based CF is nearing the end of its road for performance applications.

We don't know the specs for the upcoming cameras and recording formats. REDCODE 42 on a Scarlet 3K is going to be something different than the REDCODE 42 we have right now on the RED One.

If you're looking at 60fps for 3K, this will require a fast recording option. I would plan on RED 16GB cards, RED Drive or RED RAM as well as upcoming media like the 128GB SSD modules and newer, faster CF or other media from RED. We will know more as the cameras get closer and RED gives us all the details.

 

[Nick D]

Jeff,

Thanks for the info. My quote is from today's press release from the Compact Flash Association at http://www.compactflash.org/

Of particular interest to Red Users in the specification is the following:
Video Performance Guarantee (Optional) =
"Quality of service for video capture applications to ensure quality recordings with no dropped frames"

Then, Red could simply publish the required data rate instead of testing and developing their own CF media, and we could select our media of choice that meets the rate.

Sound good?

 

[David Rasberry]

So far Red is testing everything that comes out, and usully they can't meet the sustained write speeds required for RED cameras. It's not the same as shooting video where the data rates are much lower, measured in megabits per second, not megabytes per second.

For reliable performance expect to need cards that can sustain continous 42MB/sec (that's megabytes) write speeds as a minimum.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

The CF5.0 press release makes more sense when put into context with the actual specs. Some very promising specs indeed. I guess we'll see what comes out of it.

 

[Jay Gannon]

I'd prefer sticking with CF's, 1. I have a stack of them.2. I hate SD's their tiny and much harder to work with in cold weather when your wearing gloves, for some of us this is a real consideration as weird as it sounds.

 

[Nick D]

I use both, but the CF enclosure seems more robust...