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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Can I use the Red one Handheld by myself?

S

Seth Fisher

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Hi all,

I do not own a red nor have I ever used one. I do, however have access to one on my next shoot, but I'm not sure how much assistance i would need in operating the thing.

Couple questions:
1) Can I wield the thing on my shoulder and pull focus myself without a follow focus?
2) What is the most bare bones, slimmed down setup for handheld "run and gun" shooting?
3) Is there a difference in quality between using compact flash or RED flash?

Overall, I'm trying to get a sense if in using the RED by myself, I would be biting off more than I could chew.

Thoughts?
 
It sounds like you might.

1) focus. Can you? sure. Will you be happy with the results? Thats the question. Unless you have pulled off the barrel on a 35mm motion camera before you will not be used to it. When compared to any type of "video" camera it will be much, much harder. The type of lens will factor in alot here too. If you have a subject that is moving alot be prepared for some soft focus. Then again you might be amazing so.... use at your own risk.

2) bare bones:
camera body / lcd or efv / lens / battery / CF card.
that is as small as it gets.
you can put the battery elsewhere.

You might want handles of some-kind.
Again, depending on the cameras you have used before this might be ..... more.

3) Non red CF cards are a crap shoot. Read/write speed is the issue. They could simply start dropping frames in the middle of the card. You don't know. Each one is different. Not even each brand. The RED CF are guaranteed to work at their stated specs. You have no idea where the bench mark is that any other CF card will fail at.
 
goldfish2112 said:
1) Can I wield the thing on my shoulder and pull focus myself without a follow focus?
2) What is the most bare bones, slimmed down setup for handheld "run and gun" shooting?
3) Is there a difference in quality between using compact flash or RED flash?
Click to expand...

1> Yes. You can. I've done it several times and will probably do so again.. A lot also depends on your lens and shoulder setup, etc.. how coordinated you are...

2> Camera body, lens, 5.6" RED LCD attached to 5" arm, battery mounted to RED quickplate, on ET V-Lock system, or on a battery belt clip, CF media, some sort of handle system like the RED top handle.

3> Camera records the same modes or quality regardless of media. The only catch is that some media is not as fast as other types, so on slower media not all record options will be available. For example, RED and Lexar UDMA 8GB CF cards can not record 4K 16:9 at RC36 MAX quality. However, the RED 16GB CF cards and the RED-RAM SSD can. Cards that are too slow for the camera or not approved, will only allow you to record in 2K modes.

I strongly advise spending a few hours working with and using the camera before jumping into a shoot with the RED.
 
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This is Red #19 Blair rockin it handheld. Element Technica kit. Shooting-focus pulling..not a problem =)
6452_103432834010_647319010_2142185_5199946_n.jpg
 
Tonaci Tran said:
This is Red #19 Blair rockin it handheld. Element Technica kit. Shooting-focus pulling..not a problem =)
6452_103432834010_647319010_2142185_5199946_n.jpg
Click to expand...

Seeing this photo reminds me why I changed the EVF mount onto the Mantis versus on top of the camera.

Yes, you can focus while handholding and I'm sure that Gibby will chime in here any minute...

Steve, what do you think?
 
you can do it but make no mistake, this camera is heavy. I have had broadcast cameras on my shoulder for over 20 years so take it from me when i say the red with just the basics is still a "shoulder full".

c'mon EPIC!!!
 
this is all helpful stuff guys. thanks. the pictures in particular are helpful. i have someone ready to rent me a Red with the Base production package with a nikon mount and mattbox and LCD. I'm trying to determine what else might be essential to pull this off. I would have about 6 hours to play with the machine before production. Am I a fool? :) Do I need a cushy shoulder mount and/or viewfinder?
 
The LCD is handy if that suits your needs. You might try and see if you need the mattebox for your shots, or if you can get by with the shade that comes on the nikons, and screw on filters. Just depends on what your needs are. Before ET came out with the Mantis, I threw together a quick strap-on pad. The folks at ET had a good laugh when I showed it to them, but it worked and I used it all day long with just the Red handles. For your enjoyment!
 
Mark Phelan said:
The LCD is handy if that suits your needs. You might try and see if you need the mattebox for your shots, or if you can get by with the shade that comes on the nikons, and screw on filters. Just depends on what your needs are. Before ET came out with the Mantis, I threw together a quick strap-on pad. The folks at ET had a good laugh when I showed it to them, but it worked and I used it all day long with just the Red handles. For your enjoyment!
Click to expand...

thats brilliant DoItYourself is so much better its got character :thumbup:
 
Goldfish, what are you shooting? Narrative movie, documentary, concert?

What will the end result be shown on? Theatrical, Blu Ray, DVD, Cable TV?

Focus pulling by yourself is not impossible. But it relies on several factors.

1. Type of lenses being used. Cine or Still?
2. How much you'll be opening up the iris. Shooting wide open is going to give you fits if people are moving all over the place.
3. Will you have a follow focus or be focusing from the lens?
4. Is the director comfortable with loose focus? In other words if things go out for a second here or there, is that okay? If everything has to be spot on, no mistakes, well that means you're going to have to be very sharp pulling your own focus.
5. The weight and balance of the camera can affect the ergonomics of pulling focus. You'll need to have everything balanced very well so that you are concentrating less on keeping the camera on your shoulder and more on pulling focus.
6. You'll also have to be good at composing a shot, and simultaneously focusing, especially if it's a run and gun situation. For those who are not used to doing this, it can be difficult, especially if your talent is moving around.
7. Monitoring. How will you monitor? LCD? If so, keep in mind that it's not always easy to focus with the LCD. It's not as sharp as a good full size production monitor, and the EVF is a much better option for focusing. Just keep in mind, if for theatrical or any large screen venue, your focus mistakes are going to be even more obvious.
8. As you get tired from having the camera on your shoulder, you may be more prone to making focus errors.

You can strip the camera down, but keep in mind you may be sacrificing critical components needed to get the shots you need. And as mentioned, you may not be able to shoot 4K, 16x9, RC36 if that is what the production needs.

Go into this with some testing under your belt. Do not do the testing 6 hours before. It could be a disaster. Or not, but I would never want to wing it if given the choice.
 
Zak's note about preferring the LCD and using my craned neck behind the EVF in the photo Tony posted as evidence is a point worth noting. That said, I want to be clear that had I been willing to take a few more minutes in set up I could have gotten the EVF in a much more comfortable place. In this particular instance I just needed some quick b-roll so I made the choice to do the quickest rig job I could and just muscle the camera. FWIW matteboxes and the EVF can get in each others way and that's why it takes a little longer to get it sorted, which is an issue with pretty much any handheld rig.

When I was shooting the Journey concert (with Gibby, Oli, Champe, et al) I was able to rig the Mantis into a very comfortable position with the EVF. I personally find the EVF far better for judging critical focus when you're pulling your own focus than the LCD, YMMV.

Very excited about the new EVFs on the Epic. I haven't had one in my hand yet but they promise to be smaller, lighter and higher resolution. Perhaps a few more of the "optical finder or death" crowd will come aboard. Its worth noting that even with the "version 1.0 factor", the RedOne and its EVF exceeded industry standards in a number of areas. Moreover, it seems they have goosed the development and release of better kit from a number of established manufacturers. Thanks again Red Team. Thanks again ET.

Cheers- #19
 
I find the 7" is fine for focus especially with Zoom feature. I too cant wait for the
better, faster stronger $6M BOMB EVF on epic. (thats a Six Million Dollar Man reference for those of you old enough to remember that series)

$6M to build a bionic man in 2009... LAUGH OUT LOUD !!
 
Goldfish,

The answer to your thread title question is a qualified "yes", if you have the skills, experience, and equipment on RED to effectively shoulder and hand hold - and the lighting and genre of production are such to enable shoulder and hand held production.

Like anything else: "If you can do it...it ain't braggin'!"

For some peripheral info on this, check out my magazine article in the current (July 8) issue of TV Technology magazine - online version, electronic version, and print version.

Here's a to a new thread I just opened here on RED User with info and links to the magazine article:

http://205.234.135.241/forum/showthread.php?t=32201
 
Camera Op notes

Camera Op notes

Had I been shooting more than a few minutes of b-roll I would have built a far more comfortable rig. As I leave some of my aks attached during transit its just faster to do the rig in the photo. I'm used to short term discomfort - I'm married :nopity:

Perhaps Pam has a shot of me in Manila where I took full advantage of the ET Mantis to create a rig that even an old guy like me could shoot non-stop, for almost 3 hours in tropical heat and humidity.

FWIW with good planning, the right kit and more years of experience than I care to admit - you can use the RedOne very much like an ENG/EFP rig. To expand on Gibby's note, you would be well served to know your way around the RedOne and have spent time with a full sized shoulder mount camera before heading out solo.

Cheers- #19
 
Shot handheld today. Be warned that unless you have a very padded shoulder mount (unlike the one provided in the RED shouldermount) you are going to want to toss a folded towel on your shoulder. I was surprised just by how large the RED was on my shoulder, however this was the first camera of this size to be shoulder mounted to me haha.

And although pulling focus is definitely possible, it won't come easy especially not with practice and good coordination.

Good luck.

EDIT: Let me elaborate on RED's handheld kit. It is nice, however the 19mm rods that go into the cheeseplate almost negate the shoulder dovetail, as in the rails dig into my shoulder. I tossed a folded towel on and it was perfect.
So make sure you bring a towel! haha
 
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