Camera vs. Film School

[Dan Kanes]

But if it's either or - I'd drop the 15k on scarlet instead of one semester in College.

Not everyone wants to be a director - some want to be cinematographers. Yeah - GH2 is a great investment as well. I'd sit in on free classes though. Spend time socializing and learning how to learn. That's really what college is about.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

I could write a page long here... Really, on why ot stay in school and or why to not to and just by a camera...

Reasons, if you are a well versed fellow and mean business school will be almost certainly a waist, unless it is a really good school, and they don't teach on hold Arri Film cameras.

But to summarize in one single word: CAMERA!!

 

[Mohamed Younis]

I'm opening a production house in about 2-3 weeks which i completely funded on my own using money I made shooting events, video clips, short movies on a 5D with old used nikon glass for the past 3 years. I dropped out of college "theater major" and I'm only 22 years old. I now own an Epic M, a RED one, a set of ultra primes, standard primes, red primes, L series primes, lighting, dollies, and a whole bunch of other stuff.
Of course things might have worked out for me that way because I live in Egypt and it took the market about a year to catch up on the DSLR craze. Things might work out for you and they might not, even if you go to film school.

 

[Michael Millichamp]

Film School and College in general doesn't just teach you how to move a light stand or things like that.

It expands your mind, opens you to things you might not realize in the real world, it makes you understand things and know deadlines. It's just a "warm up" to real life.

If you think you have the skills to go out in the real world and make movies and have people fund your stuff, do it. Would I invest money in a movie I thought had a good script, but it came from someone who didn't go to college? Most likely not. I want to make sure my money is being well spent, and to get a bachelors degree, that atleast takes some maturity to finish out.

College is for some people and its not. Im in film school and I love it. But at the same time I also do my own stuff. I shoot on my own, I learn on my own, and I plan my future on my own. But I can say, film school has helped me learn more about technical things and the artistic things.

 

[G Lap]

Not directly related to film school, but from looking backwards (I'm much older) here are a couple of random thoughts.

I ran away to sea when I was younger than you and had a great time for a few years.......then one day reality suddenly kicked in with a "what the feck am I going to do now" moment. Luckily, after some frantic self study with much hard work, I managed to sit and pass the bare minimum exams necessary to get into college (aviation in my case) in the nick of time just before the maximum age limit. I was twenty-six, not old, but five to eight years behind most of the others taking that course and at times I couldn't help but think that at least some of those years had been wasted.
In the end my early decisions didn't stop me forging a career in my field of choice, but I've always regretted not going to college........it's about so much more than the class subject matter.

Fast forward and my youngest daughter, your age, is considering options for University (as did her elder sister before her) and if she'd decided to drop out, well, I won't even begin to go there.....

Your decision of course, and what works for one person doesn't necessarily work for the next, but do give it some very serious thought. It's much more difficult to get back into study later, if you've been away from it for more than a gap year or so. That's not to say that life and work experience count for nothing, far from it, but try to make your choice a conscious, considered one.

Good luck.

 

[Paul Russell]

A few years early on in life getting a good qualification are not wasted, imho. Aside from the learning, there's the networking, the broad depth of experience, the free crew opportunities, and the doors that it can open for you. There's nothing to stop you filming projects on the side, even commercially. And who says you need a Red to film your starter projects?

 

[Demetri Zuev]

A camera won't teach you directing techniques

A camera won't teach you how to write a good properly structured script

A camera won' teach you framing, composition etc.

I'm not saying that any film school will, all I want to say is that you have to get an education. The way you get it is up to you to choose, whether it's a film school, a pile of great books combined with hands on experience or a mentorship by someone who's already inside the industry.

First learn the rules, then break them.

Too bad the majority of filmmakers today don't bother with learning, they think that they can just take the camera and create a masterpiece.

FIY, Robert Rodriguez was making movies since he was 9-years old, so by the time he made El Mariachi he's already had 15 years of trial and error experience.

P.S.: I'd suggest that you decide who you want to be — producer, director, writer, cinematographer or someone else, cause if you decide to go a film school route, some programs are far better that the others.

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

Opinionated? Hell, I can do that!

You mention powerful story telling as what's most important, so this would mean you need a powerful screenplay. If you have a powerful screenplay and a vivid imagination and knowledge of the setting you want to bring to life, wouldn't it be more valuable to invest in the proper tools to bring that vision to life?

Damned good point. But there is nothing wrong with making a 'draft film', if you know what I mean. Make the whole film with a hacked GH2 and then later, if you get funding, do it all over again with a nicer camera ::cough:: Scarlet ::cough::.

I grew up using FILM to make my first few shorts.

I never finished even the shortest of short films, but I loved shooting Super-8! (The shortest film I started was a one-shot film called Greed, where a man has a piece of chocolate, cuts it unevenly, and offers his off-screen friend the smaller part).

A few years early on in life getting a good qualification are not wasted, imho.

I don't think that anything except liberal arts or the 'hard' subject are really 'qualifications'. Advertising is one of the most wet, vain 'qualifications' one can get. Film school is way beyond that, but it isn't what I'd call a qualification.

My preference is to be an autodidact wherever possible (I think most photographers learn from raw experience - I know I did and still do). Speaking of David Lynch (the most awesome living director), he was self-taught. So was Kubrick, so was Spielberg, so was Cameron. Lucas (who made some of the greatest films ever, though not quite in Kubrick's league) went to film school. One of my great friends went to film school and is having a ball in LA. The point: it almost doesn't matter except what you prefer.

Oh, and fuck those DSLRs. Shoot your first film on an iPhone with lens attachments. You can do it - you really can. After all, "2K is enough". Right? Right? Right? Right?...

Just IMHO...

 

[Erich Ocean]

Move to a College town. Get a Scarlet, hang out with College Girls, find some film students to crew for you. Sit in on classes for free, and have the best of all worlds.

If Only I had known this 13 years ago.

This is actually great advice. For one, you can figure out if college is right for you this way, while still making progress on film in the meantime.

 

[Kurt Harder]

Do anything to get on any set and just start meeting people. I'm 19 and I'm just wrapping up post production this month my first feature shot on Red MX. A little over a year ago I'd never touched a Red let alone been on a real set. When I was about your age (I think I was 16) I started really looking into the film scene in my city but couldn't find the means to get onto crew as most crews in our scene were based on recommendation or knowing somebody on the production, so I looked into what was accessible; auditions. I started googling/searching facebook for casting calls and going to them, meet the director and ask to be a production assistant or camera trainee if I didn't get the role (which I never did). Within a few short film/music video shoots I'd met enough people and it just grew out of that.

Spent about a year building my feature film by simply just talking to people about how to go about it and working as hard as I could on feature films, watching everything. Talked to a lot of producers about where to find funding and ended up getting a decent grant. We ended up renting the Red for a couple weeks and it just kept growing out of that.

From what I've seen this industry is all about networking and having the aptitude to learn. If film school does that for you then it's a great option, but if you can go out and actually be on sets I'd definitely recommend that instead. You learn a lot faster from what I've seen.

 

[George Butterfield]

If you're young, as you are, I'd say go to film school and get all you can out of it. Make friends, films and contacts. Get known as a guy who can get things done. Pick everybody's brain, find out who knows stuff and learn what they know. Make additional films outside of film school. Read,read read. Give it 100% then you will get 100% out of it. Don't hang around with losers. When you graduate an Epic-X will be 1/10th the current price, if you even want to buy it. If you're over Thirty ... get a job on a feature or get a crew together and make a movie. Remember you're never to old to start as an Actor or a Director.

 

[David W. Jones]

You are not going to want to hear this, but I'm a realist. Everybody wants to be a movie director, or race car driver, or pro football player. The reality of the matter is, there are very few jobs available doing these things, and the chances of you becoming a Hollywood movie director is slim at best. My advice, acquire all the knowledge you can, while you still have the opportunity. Get a degree that can be used in any field. Look over the forums and you will see plenty of posts from people that have a keen eye for shooting, but absolutely no business sense. "How much should I charge?" Also don't get caught up in all the camera hype. The camera is probably the least important part of making a successful film. Just the thoughts of an old guy.

Good Luck!

Dave

 

[Peter Strietmann]

I keep telling my son to work on his writing. The concepts and story lines are the most important thing. He is very creative and I've worked for him as a DP. But for some reason he wants to also be a DP. He has great directing abilities and I think this is something that can't be taught but is a kind of sensitivity to the big picture, I certainly can't direct (other than photography). Don't discount real world experiences as a form of school, the technical stuff you can learn from the internet if you can read. I have a unit of measurement I use with old stuff I've done, I call it the cringe factor. After a certain amount of years you look at some of the crap you have done and try not to gag. Most of that stuff I had to learn by trial and error so school can be very helpful in that way. Keep asking questions and shooting and it will come.

 

[Jeremiah Kuehne]

You are not going to want to hear this, but I'm a realist. Everybody wants to be a movie director, or race car driver, or pro football player. The reality of the matter is, there are very few jobs available doing these things, and the chances of you becoming a Hollywood movie director is slim at best. My advice, acquire all the knowledge you can, while you still have the opportunity. Get a degree that can be used in any field. Look over the forums and you will see plenty of posts from people that have a keen eye for shooting, but absolutely no business sense. "How much should I charge?" Also don't get caught up in all the camera hype. The camera is probably the least important part of making a successful film. Just the thoughts of an old guy.

I suppose I should probably specify..I've currently put together a group of 4 friends and myself who all have different abilities as it relates to putting together a production. I'm more on the technical end of it, which is why I'm focusing on the equipment so much. I'm a very business minded person and have worked through the numbers quite well and have a decent idea of how this would all go down. My goal isn't to get a job in Hollywood..my goal is to create jobs in the Midwest (USA). Nothing about the idea I have is standard..but every time I go over the numbers again, it all works out.

 

[Scott Crawley]

If you plan to create jobs (real ones) then you must have a plan to generate revenues. Whatever it is (short if fraud and theft) good luck with that. Sincerely.

 

[Jeremiah Kuehne]

If you plan to create jobs (real ones) then you must have a plan to generate revenues. Whatever it is (short if fraud and theft) good luck with that. Sincerely.

I'm curious about what you guys have to say about Sherwood Pictures. Essentially I plan on doing something sort of similar to what they're doing. It's a production company started by a church in Albany, Georgia. They had a unique vision and used mostly volunteers to accomplish their vision. I intend on getting started using the high school network rather than the church network for advertising. Unique situation, deep impact, revolutionary idea..that's how things get started. If I planned on doing things the typical way, I'd expect the typical outcome. I know better than to think my first film would change the world. But then again..it could happen.

 

[Justin Chin]

I get this question all the time. Mostly it's with game development but there's plenty of times when people ask me about filmmaking because that's what I do now. I dropped out of college 20 years ago because I was eager to work and I was sick of school. I had been going to art schools, classes and college level courses since I was 7 on my own time. I've always knew what I was going to be an artist and storyteller, but I didn't know what medium I'd fall into. I look at all the other people at my age and most were lost. Even the smart ones. I was lucky, I know where I stood. If you have passion follow it. That's the only way to be happy.

But your question is about school or work/camera. I've included quotes below that I believe are sound advice (for the record). But I'll add my own thoughts.

Soon after I got into the workforce I began to really admire the backgrounds of the people who had really made the most out of there higher education. I was young when I did my schooling so I had little connection with other college students. So my diploma + peers had a great network of people they could count on and inspire them. Now you can build that yourself, but that takes a lot of time. One of the best parts of a higher education is being with like minded people, being forced to learn things you hadn't realized existed and could even influence you, learning your craft, and doing all that in a compressed amount of time. There are things that you learn when you are forced to do them, that's the forge.

Part of being a professional is knowing what you don't know and having the maturity to accommodate for that. There's a difference between working with _like_ minded people and working with and being educated by very experienced people. Don't be a big fish in a small pond (which I see happens with people starting out). Find the some really big fish to follow, in whatever size pond you can find. You just cut through an insane amount of shit and mistakes really early (you'll still make some) but you'll waste less time. The key is balancing that. Each school has an era of greatness, and you'll want to find the schools (if you choose that route) that are in that prime. Right teachers right mix of students and really leverage that zeitgeist. SF Art Academy in the 90's was super amazing for illustration and then animation. Then after 2000 it has had a great string of cinematographer grads. And now Full Sail has a great program for video games.

If I've learned anything about making it in the business and perhaps I haven't since I haven't made it in the business, however, it's that you want to learn how to network with people, hang around with producers, actors, writers.
Go work on other peoples sets, understand what everyone's job is and why they do it eventually it might lead to directing something yourself.
As for getting a camera you may as well buy a 60D an external recorder with a decent shotgun mic and a boom pole because what you really want to learn is powerful story telling, thats something having a red camera won't teach you, you aren't wasting your time shooting 1080p because your first films will suck.

You had a question in response to this, "what if you have a great script" (paraphrasing). Well, how do you know you have one? Who says so? Is this you're own determination? You are probably a very smart individual, but intelligence can only get you so far. The best combination is intelligence and experience. Demetri (quoted below), makes the point of knowing the rules first then you can break them. I'd also add that even knowing the rules doesn't give you the best insite to break them. Experience helps greatly with that. I know it took me years, and I was very successful in the video game industry (in art, design and writing). I still cringe even at my early work (even the very successful work). You can always do better, just try and get to that better sooner. The only way to do that is in the doing AND learning of the craft. But you have to be agressive, and have the maturity to know and recognize when you are overreaching. Sometimes it's good to aim over the fence and sometimes it's not the right time to do so.

Okay, that was way too long. Time to get back to writing.

A camera won't teach you directing techniques

A camera won't teach you how to write a good properly structured script

A camera won' teach you framing, composition etc.

I'm not saying that any film school will, all I want to say is that you have to get an education. The way you get it is up to you to choose, whether it's a film school, a pile of great books combined with hands on experience or a mentorship by someone who's already inside the industry.

First learn the rules, then break them.

Too bad the majority of filmmakers today don't bother with learning, they think that they can just take the camera and create a masterpiece.

FIY, Robert Rodriguez was making movies since he was 9-years old, so by the time he made El Mariachi he's already had 15 years of trial and error experience.

P.S.: I'd suggest that you decide who you want to be — producer, director, writer, cinematographer or someone else, cause if you decide to go a film school route, some programs are far better that the others.

 

[Jeremiah Kuehne]

Thanks for all the helpful responses! It's very interesting to read everyone's opinions.

 

[Dave Blackham]

Easy: Find the very best Pro that will talk to you and intern for them. Then shoot/edit your ass off in your spare time while networking within the industry like a madman. You might drop Joseph Hutson a PM. He's seems to have it wired @20

I dont know Joseph, but this is the right thing to do. When you finish Film School, if you go that is, you will have to do this anyway.

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

If I was in my late teens again.. I would def not go to college. i did for a short time, but bailed when i realized how much of a waste it was... no one cares about a degree in this business.. unless maybe your trying for a business position at a studio...

further more.. i def wouldn't spend any saved up money on a camera as an investment.. cameras come and go.. you'll get 2 years use before the next one comes out, and you lose half of what you put into the camera. they will not go up in value..

lenses.. will

guns.. will

food.. will

be smart with the investment