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Camera Stops Working Just Before Shoot

Shaun O'Connell

Shaun O'Connell

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www.labyrinth-films.com
I'm starting this thread to (hopefully) get some questions answered about RED, my current issue, tech support, and the RMA process. If it's in the wrong section, I apologize in advance.

On Sunday, May 23rd, we decided to test our RED One at 4.5k for an upcoming shoot (scheduled to start rolling on June 3rd). To our surprise, as well as the director's, our camera would not boot. After a quick search of REDUSER, we discovered that someone else had the same problem not so long ago: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=36389

I left frantic emails and voicemails, plus we sent a trouble ticket via RED.com. At 10:27 PM I received an email from Nate stating that it was probably a hardware issue. "Unfortunately," he said, "it may need to come in for an evaluation/repair." My heart sank.

Through subsequent emails on Monday, we decided the camera would have to go back to RED. I also discovered that turnaround time is about 3-5 days after it arrives.

The RMA ticket came in (RMA # BB SOr-008248) and we instantly noticed the $100 evaluation fee. We shipped the camera w/insurance via UPS, priority overnight ($400+ one way). On top of that, we found out that our camera's warranty is expired. This would have been good to keep in mind (1 year only). I'd pay extra up front for an "AppleCare" option, if it existed. Admittedly I'm worried about the total cost for all of this, but I'm really freaked out that we won't get our camera back in time for the shoot.

On Tuesday, UPS confirmed that our RED One was successfully delivered to LAKE FOREST, CA. Unfortunately nobody told RED. It took an email, a phone call, and another day before they realized the package was indeed in the warehouse.

I received confirmation on Wednesday that our camera was there, and it was currently in diagnosis. I just called a few minutes ago (Thursday), only to learn our camera is still in diagnosis (and would be until 3 or 4 this afternoon). I'm praying that they can find out what it is, fix it, and have it sent back before June 3rd. Our livelihood for the next month depends on it. To that end, has anyone ever had the problem described in the thread above? If so, what was the recommended course of action, how much (roughly) did it cost, and how long did it take? What is the real turnaround time for RED repairs?

Nate, Brian, and Daniel w/RMA have been very helpful, despite my elevated stress levels. Hopefully I'll get some good news today.

Thanks!
 
RED tech support has been great when I have had to deal with them.

The evaluation fee gets applied to the total bill I believe, so you're not paying that on top of everything else. It just means there is a $100 minimum for them to look at it.

Do you have a Plan B in case the camera doesn't make it back in time? I know not all budgets allow for plans B and C, but this is unfortunately the downside to that. All the eggs are in one basket, so if something goes wrong, you get left SOL.

Hopefully it all gets worked out. I have found that as long as you communicate with them, RED will bend over backwards to help you out, especially if it's an urgent matter. If you get really stuck, make sure to check in with the community and see if anyone can help you out. For example, if you're going to miss things by a day, maybe someone would rent you a camera for a day at a "Reduser" price to help you get by.

Good luck with everything!
 
Thanks for the feedback. The techs I have talked to are all very nice, but it's taking a long time, especially considering our deadline. (i.e. no diagnosis, and this is day 3)

The company that hired us undoubtedly has a plan B and C, it just won't involve us. Hopefully we can still make it and have a job in June.

Thanks again!
 
worse case scenario you might need to sub rent to get the job, may take a hit on pay because of that, but you could sub rent until your own camera comes back, better than losing the whole job no?
 
I had boot problems once. It was up to the battery V plate.
All the best for you!
 
Recently had the same boot/power up issue the night before a rental.
I feel your pain!

BB
 
Good news (and light at the end of the tunnel). 1 1/2 hours after I posted this thread, RED got back to me with a service quote. The power supply and audio board needs to be replaced. They said they could get it shipped out today (Friday), which means we should have our camera back just in time for the shoot! Thank you RED!

Also, thanks to everyone that replied. REDUSER is a great resource for RED owners! :)

p.s. Mark - our office is located in South Dakota. Please send me a PM if you'd like more info.
 
Glad to hear that your situation is being resolved. I have a couple of pieces of advice that won't really help you much at this point, but might help the next person in a similar position:

1. If you have insurance on your camera, you may well be covered for shipping. In that case, you can avoid the cost of buying insurance from UPS or FedEx. Check you policy, it'll save you a lot of money over the years.

2. When you ship a camera, (or anything urgent) always assume that the receiveng room at the other end looks like that warehouse at the end of Raiders of the Lost Arc. Receiving will have 300 packages to distribute through the building before yours. As soon as you know it's been delivered, call your contact at the other end. S/he probably doesn't know it's there yet.

3. Get an online account for the shipper you use most often. it costs nothing, you'll get slightly better rates, and you can have them send email notifications to you and the recipient when the package ships and when it arrives. They come immediately. (When a package arrives at my office, I get the email in the time it takes me to walk upstairs after signing for it.) That way you can accelerate #2. And if you're busy it happens automatically.

4. Use this forum or your contacts to create a plan B. In the time since your first post, you could have had a back-up rental set up to carry you over until the camera came back from Red. It would not have cost anything to set up the contingency, and it would have given you some peace of mind.

Good luck to you. I hopes the shoot is great!
 
but still I wonder about the button combination that was spoken of... Is it real, or is it as phantasmal as the contents of the box in the warehouse at the end of Raiders Of The Lost Arc ?
 
David - thanks for the advice.

I will certainly find out if our insurance covers shipping. Your right, that would save a bundle over time.

Regarding number 4, we have a contingency plan and a R1 body from another rental house standing by (we're not out of the woods yet). We also worked with the client to determine a suitable course of action, saving them the headache and keeping the production on track.

My advice to those in a similar situation would be to use this forum. Speak your concerns and listen to the experts (other RED users).

This may seem silly to some, perfunctory to others, but if you own a RED camera, power it up daily. Don't assume that it will actually function when the time comes. Save yourself the grief and make sure your camera is operational well before you have anything to shoot. If you find a problem and have to send it in, error on the side of safety; add an additional 3-5 days to your RMA quote.

p.s. The button combo to enable "safety mode" does make sense. The R1 is a computer in a bomb shell after all. ;)
 
D Fuller's advice is excellent.
I would also humbly suggest that if you are serious about the rental business, you need 2 of everything. I own two Reds, and have three colleagues each with one or more Reds that I have 24-hour access to, all in the same Manhattan location. I never rent both my cameras out without first securing a backup plan with one of the guys in my little "family".
I have multiple sets of filters, matteboxes, extra batteries, etc. I even have double coverage of some popular lenses just in case something goes amiss on the job. Certainly "small potato" items like EVF/LCD cables, drive and Microforce cables, and card readers, plan to have three or four PER CAMERA.
Tom Wong and Bruce Allen have pointed this out too. You need to CYA at all times. What if the camera had failed to boot in the middle of the job? You don't want to get a reputation for unreliability and sinking productions' boats.
I realize this may be easier for me in New York City than South Dakota, but you should have contingency plans nonetheless.
I have certainly had to send both cameras to Red multiple times, and have lost thousands of dollars of rentals in the process, either by forgoing a job or needing to subrent, but that's a cost of doing business. It's a drag. The flipside is that when I was renting film cameras, they would go down less frequently, but the repair bills were absolutely astronomical. I used to pay $700 for a 16SR3 "cam follower" made of Delryn (yes plastic!) plus labor almost annually. An annual strip-and-lube service for that camera at Arri was several thousand dollars.
Keep in mind that Red likely has a few dozen cameras in the RMA queue at any one time and it takes time to diagnose quirky electronics. That being said, they very often surprise me with short turnaround time and are very good at email communication. I've gotten some quick early-morning EST responses from Brent Carter that make me wonder when he actually finds time to sleep... ;)
Anyway, glad it worked out. But plan for the worst and hope for the best.
Cheers,
Harry
 
Harry - how many times have you had to send your camera(s) back to RED? (just curious)

This is seriously the first issue we've had with the camera since we bought it in 2008. The R1 is amazing, but maybe I got too complacent? We always have a backup plan (before and during photography), we just never needed it before.

Thanks!
 
Hey Shaun,
Each of them several times, maybe three? I have had the audio board and power board replaced on each camera. There was a mysterious CODEC_FAULT repair, and the refusal of a camera to mount drives.
That's in addition to the audio board replacement (free), the ESATA_TRANS_FAULT upgrade/repair (free), and the MX upgrade.
So I would say that between actual repairs, and "upgrades", each camera has been to Red at least five times, perhaps more, in two and a half years.
Very little (relatively) money, more the loss in use of the cameras.
Cheers,
Harry
 
Harry,

Thanks for the info! Precisely the reason I love this forum. I also agree with you wholeheartedly. If we decide to really get into the rental business, I'm sure we would purchase 1 or more additional cameras (though I'd probably wait for Epic). Then if there's a problem, I just walk over to my neighbor and borrow a brain. ;)
 
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