Called Red about RPP purchase. Got a weird answer.

[Paul J Steinberg]

...well I think it was a weird answer.

I called to ask about purchasing a set of Red Pro Primes. My question was, "Do the lenses come with extra shims or do I need to order them?"

When prep'ing any job my camera assist almost always sends back at least one lens from a set, sometimes several, to be shimmed so the focus marks line up. The answer from Red surprised me. I was told that they don't sell shims, the lenses are set and matched at the factory, to open them voids the warranty and if anything needs to be adjusted they need to be sent back to Red.

Is that true?

Shimming prime lenses is a necessity and only takes a couple of minutes but sometimes the technician doesn't get it on the first try and has to do it again. Shipping them all the way to California each time seems an unacceptable delay. Now I'm assuming that once I own a set and have them set up to my camera I will rarely have to tweak them but they will still require the initial setup

If you own a set of RPP's how did you set them up with your camera?

 

[fREDeric ChAMbERlAnd]

Hi,

Got my RPP shims here :
CAM A LOT and went to my local rental house to have them "shimmed" by the lens technicians. No magic here.

Cheers.

F

 

[Paul J Steinberg]

brilliant! thanks for the shim source.

crazy that Red are not honoring their warranty if you do what Arri/Zeiss/Angineaux/Cooke expect you to do.

 

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

Probably because Red isn't a lens company, like Zeiss, Angeniuex or Cooke.

 

[Tony Lorentzen]

I was told that they don't sell shims, the lenses are set and matched at the factory, to open them voids the warranty and if anything needs to be adjusted they need to be sent back to Red.

This was part of the reason why I sold mine; I just couldn't get the lenses serviced locally because it wasn't possible for the lens tech to acquire technical papers or spare parts from RED. Also - last I heard, RED in the UK (I'm based out of Denmark) doesn't service lenses so if I wanted mine serviced, I'd have to ship them all the way to the US, which is kinda inconvenient for those of us in Europe. I'm not going to buy more glass from RED until service in Europe is possible.

 

[David Battistella]

That's a fair reason for selling Tony. Shimming is a pretty common thing when you have to move glass between different cameras. I guess thus made sone sense on the R1 when they had a backfires ring, but now with the fixed mounts on the EPIC you want to be able to shim lenses instead of adjusting backfocus for every lens.

Even at the price point specs and shims should be available for cinema level primes. It's just a part of being a pro product. I hope RED reconsiders this position a bit and provides rental houses a way to service RED glass the way they would any other glass.

David

 

[Paul J Steinberg]

I literally had my credit card out and was ready to order but this was totally unexpected and froze me in my tracks. I'm expecting that once I have the set shimmed for my Red One, eventually Epic, that I won't need to adjust them very often but right now I'll void the warranty with that initial set up and if a lens needs more shims than are already inside then I'll need to order them from Europe.

I was hoping that the answer I received from the person on the phone was wrong but it sounds like this is Red's policy. If anyone from Red can contact me to let me know if I can get shims and have the lens adjusted by local tech you'll have a sale. If it's not possible they might think about taking the "pro" off the name of the set.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Sorry to call foul on you David (I enjoy your posts) but the Epic has a rather advanced back focus adjustment facility.

Beyond that, lens shims are available from a number of places and calling out RED for not stocking them seems a bit over the top to me - though I suppose that's easier to say when you live/work in Southern California...

Cheers - #19

 

[Jarred Land]

You will not void the warranty by shimming your lenses ( obviously ) ... we just don't sell extra shims.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

FWIW the concept that you can adjust the focal plane rather than the interface between the lens and the mount to get precise FFD has some upside. Shimming a lens is a PITA compared to turning a screwdriver. It remains to be seen how robust RED's implementation is, but I love the way Jim and the crew think outside the box.

Cheers - #19

 

[Paul J Steinberg]

Jarred, thanks for the clarification.

Blair, it's not the shim sales that is the big issue, it was that I was told repeatedly while on the phone with Red directly that any adjustment to the lens (including shimming) would void the warranty. Much thanks to Jarred for clearing this up quickly. Credit card is back in hand.

 

[Jarred Land]

Yes Blair we think Shimming sucks as well.. which is why we move the mount/sensor. But if you want to use RPP's on other cameras, or just want them all to match each other so you don't need to keep adjusting back focus on lens changes if a lens gets out of which, you need to shim the flange on the lens. This is pretty common practice and if you are uncomfortable with doing it you can pay to get it done at Duclos or a number of other rental houses.

I think maybe what the RED rep was meaning to say is that if you break anything when you are shimming.. it is not under warranty.

 

[David Battistella]

Sorry to call foul on you David (I enjoy your posts) but the Epic has a rather advanced back focus adjustment facility.

Beyond that, lens shims are available from a number of places and calling out RED for not stocking them seems a bit over the top to me - though I suppose that's easier to say when you live/work in Southern California...

Cheers - #19

Blair,

It was more on the warranty issue than the shims as any lens tech in a major city can shim any lens. I never thought shimming would void a warranty until another user pointed it out in this thread.

The RPP's are professional cinema glass and should be serviceable as such. It's great that Jarred clarified this in this thread and it's really too bad that Tony let his go thinking it would void his warranty.

You are an experienced pro. You know that you'd set the backfocus on a wide lens and then shim the other lenses to match. I know your not advocating adjusting backfocus with the EPICs sensor adjustment on a per lens basis. That's not the right way to go.

In any case it's good that everyone knows that shimming RRPs is acceptable and I'd suggest to anyone that this glass is only second to master primes. The very best bang for buck in cinema glass period.

Sorry if it sounded like I was calling out. But it really wasn't that way at all. I was pretty shocked to hear Ronys reason for selling though.



David

 

[David Battistella]

I wanted to add one thing.

I agree Blair that the Epic backfocus s really smart.

Also the PL backfocus ring on the red was the first of it's kind. Red responds and solves problems. Thinking outside the box has made this the fun ride it's been.

David.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

I'm making shims for some of our products now. Thinking to make shim kits for RPPs
Maybe about $30 for a kit with two each of most common sizes...
Any takers?

 

[Fred Salaff]

Buy a Luma Check back focus tool! http://www.lumacheck.com
Works great on RED (and most all other PL mount cameras).
With the Luma Check there is no need for charts or studio set up or
external power supply....just focus on the senor pixels while
adjusting the mount. Takes less than 2 to 3 minutes. No shims
necessary.

5% discount to members of Reduser.net Forum.

 

[Paul J Steinberg]

I think maybe what the RED rep was meaning to say is that if you break anything when you are shimming.. it is not under warranty.

Nope, I asked three times directly. "So if I shim this lens to line up with my other lenses I void the warranty?" All three times the answer was yes, hence the thread.

Thanks for clearing it up.

 

[Paul J Steinberg]

I'm making shims for some of our products now. Thinking to make shim kits for RPPs
Maybe about $30 for a kit with two each of most common sizes...
Any takers?

I'd order a couple sets if you're cooking them up in the next little while.

 

[Tony Lorentzen]

Blair,

It was more on the warranty issue than the shims as any lens tech in a major city can shim any lens. I never thought shimming would void a warranty until another user pointed it out in this thread.

The RPP's are professional cinema glass and should be serviceable as such. It's great that Jarred clarified this in this thread and it's really too bad that Tony let his go thinking it would void his warranty.

You are an experienced pro. You know that you'd set the backfocus on a wide lens and then shim the other lenses to match. I know your not advocating adjusting backfocus with the EPICs sensor adjustment on a per lens basis. That's not the right way to go.

In any case it's good that everyone knows that shimming RRPs is acceptable and I'd suggest to anyone that this glass is only second to master primes. The very best bang for buck in cinema glass period.

Sorry if it sounded like I was calling out. But it really wasn't that way at all. I was pretty shocked to hear Ronys reason for selling though.



David

Easy Tiger - it was only part of the reason ;-) I sold primarily because the rental market here in Denmark is super Zeiss/Arri saturated; they were basically impossible to rent out and ROI here in our market. If I had been able to just rent them out 3-4 times per month then I would have kept them. My lenses were spot on when I got them and spot on when I sold them.

 

[Jarred Land]

deep breaths everyone... all is good in the world.