Calculating Storage Space for Redcode

[I Bloom]

I figure we need a solid thread about calculating footage needs. In comparison to 35mm RED footage is negligable but it's still a line item you need to give to producers. This is straightforward multiplication I know.

Doing a bunch of preproduction work today so I figured I'd share this:
I made a little spreadsheet for calculating footage needs, hoping someone with more experience doing longform on RED can help me check my math:

Here's the spreadsheet if you want it:
View attachment 1909

Looking into a RAID enclosure, but productions seem very happy just buying FW800 drives. And then they can walk away with them and just start working.

IBloom

 

[Elizabeth]

:weight_lift: Thanks Ian!

This is the kind of solid information I have been searching for these sleepless nights in RED Land.

If I read your spreadsheet correctly 200 GB stores one hour of footage including data backup. Is this calculated using 2k files?

I really appreciate the info, it helps me figure out exactly what I will have to pull out the hat to manifest the dream.

Enjoy!
e.

 

[I Bloom]

:weight_lift: Thanks Ian!

This is the kind of solid information I have been searching for these sleepless nights in RED Land.

If I read your spreadsheet correctly 200 GB stores one hour of footage including data backup. Is this calculated using 2k files?

I really appreciate the info, it helps me figure out exactly what I will have to pull out the hat to manifest the dream.

Enjoy!
e.

Well who knows if this is correct. But I've generally been telling commercials and music vid people that we need 2x500GB drives. That's actually overkill.

Elizabeth, my chart is for 4K at 24fps which is roughly 27MBps. 2K would be roughly one quarter that, but likely overcranked.

IBloom

 

[Elizabeth]

Well who knows if this is correct. But I've generally been telling commercials and music vid people that we need 2x500GB drives. That's actually overkill.

Elizabeth, my chart is for 4K at 24fps which is roughly 27MBps. 2K would be roughly one quarter that, but likely overcranked.

IBloom

That coincides with the minimum drive capacity I had lined out.
Are you billing these out to the clients per project?

Are you working with the 4K files in the 2K proxy draft mode?

e.

 

[I Bloom]

That coincides with the minimum drive capacity I had lined out.
Are you billing these out to the clients per project?

Are you working with the 4K files in the 2K proxy draft mode?

e.

It's the same as P2. It was the case for DVCProHD that a hard disk was actually cheaper than the equivalent DCProHD tapes. Red is more data, but still pretty cheap when you break it down per minute. You need to get producers into the habit of looking at drives like footage.

2K proxie is too heavy for a Macbook Pro, it plays back but not at 24fps. This may change as Rob continues to work on the software. Right now 1K is very manageable and works great, but of course there are other issues, on a Redcode timeline you can't currently render anything including transitions. The editor has to start thinking like a film editor to an extent, blocking out opticals, etc. and previsuallizing. I'm sure this will change soon.

I've currently got one editor cutting that is using a Prores downconvert from quicktime proxies, that I did using compressor before Redcine was available. The plan is to match that back to Redcode once we have picture lock.

I've been experimenting with cutting Redcode and switching my sequence settings to ProRes in order to test out transitions. Redcode on a Prores timeline will play as Orange RT Unlimited, but not at 24fps on my Macbook. I can rough in my transitions and then render out the timeline to fine tune them. This works pretty well but it's a trade off between these workarounds and simply downconverting all of your footage to begin with. Mark from Offhollywood has recommended that latter move.

Since all of this is geared towards generating an EDL and conform in order to get back to 2K or 4K anyways, the exact steps are judged solely on how easy it is to get from point A to point B. It may be that different workflows are called for by different amounts of footage.

If you are finishing in Prores, then best to REDCine it all to begin with, there is a time penalty there but it's probably worth it. Next best thing is to do an assembly cut in Redcode, and then downconvert select takes from RedCine. All trade offs in organization, processing time and manpower.

Bottom line if you are used to just bringing a bunch of footage into final cut and cutting away with all kinds of effects and transitions, that's not available today unless you downconvert first in Redcine. But on the flip side you can definitely cut Redcode today under similar constraints as conforming 35mm and without a heavy machine.

Please place emphasis on the word TODAY. A month ago, none of what I just described existed, and a month from today, it's likely we'll be playing on another ballfield again.

IBloom

 

[Rob Lohman]

We are still tweaking datarates etc., we just released a new build with an increased 2K datarate. Just so you know it's not locked down and these numbers will change.

 

[Elizabeth]

Please place emphasis on the word TODAY. A month ago, none of what I just described existed, and a month from today, it's likely we'll be playing on another ballfield again.

IBloom

You know, even if I never, ever get to own a RED I am completely infatuated with watching this whole creative process ... especially now ... as the RED team are right in the midst of the most powerful dynamic labor of birthing the camera. EVERYDAY brings a whole flurry of new developments and insights. It is fascinating fun and very enlightening, what a great study in human potential!

Red is more data, but still pretty cheap when you break it down per minute. You need to get producers into the habit of looking at drives like footage.

IBloom

I have been using this drive method with great success for a number of years. Even though they have already paid for the drives, I think the clients feel they are receiving an added value to be able to take the footage with them when the project is compete; this allows them the extra security of being able to have all the footage locked away in a vault somewhere and then to get the extra cost benefit of having the entire project sitting ready on their drives if a re-edit is ever needed.

The editor has to start thinking like a film editor to an extent, blocking out opticals, etc. and previsuallizing ...

Bottom line if you are used to just bringing a bunch of footage into final cut and cutting away with all kinds of effects and transitions, that's not available today unless you downconvert first in Redcine.

IBloom

Thank you so much for taking the time to lay this all out ... it is a tremendous help! Honestly, it is not really that much different from the workflows I already operate in with HDCAM tapes. This is good to know.

I am completely ready for a steep learning curve, although having other generous professional willing to share their experiences and then to also have the RED creators willing to interact so immediately with their users ... it SURE beats flying by the seat of my pants!

Bravo to you all!
e.

P.S. How easily do the 1K proxies link up with the 4K files? Is it a simple matter of "Reconnecting" in Final Cut to the matching 4K media? I imagine that it is vital to not change any file names or to start moving around files on the drives.

 

[I Bloom]

You know, even if I never, ever get to own a RED I am completely infatuated with watching this whole creative process.

Owning might not be so important. Renting might be a good step.

P.S. How easily do the 1K proxies link up with the 4K files? Is it a simple matter of "Reconnecting" in Final Cut to the matching 4K media? I imagine that it is vital to not change any file names or to start moving around files on the drives.

Someone else is better qualified to answer this question.

IBloom

 

[Elizabeth]

Yes renting is always a viable option ...but it is tantalizingly within reach!

Thanks again.

 

[Rocco Schult]

Thanks Ian, very much appreciated.

 

[Elizabeth]

How easily do the 1K proxies link up with the 4K files? Is it a simple matter of "Reconnecting" in Final Cut to the matching 4K media? I imagine that it is vital to not change any file names or to start moving around files on the drives.

There is a current discussion on this topic on the thread "Visualisation possible workflows" ... see ya there.