BWF auto-sync in REDCINE

[Mark L. Pederson]

Here's a concept - BWF auto-sync in REDCINE

I was thinking about the fact that #6 & #7 may ship before audio features are enabled (last I read on this forum) - no big deal - Offhollywood does features shot on film in addition to HD, so we are have a workflow for using BWF files. We used BWF2XML (http://www.spherico.com/filmtools/) on the last two movies we shot on film to get the TC out of the metadata header of the BWF and into XML for FCP - then we still would have to match-frame to TC and link the audio to the video - a bit tedious, but it worked fine.

Yes, I know it's SAD that FCP doesn't read the BWF header (actually, I have not checked FCP6 for that yet).

So then I started thinking ... if most folks in features will transcode out of REDCINE to a proxy for edit (ProRes, etc.) - why not add a feature in REDCINE that let's you import BFW files - automatically syncs via TC - then when you export QT's to whatever flavor you like, they have audio inside the self contained QT so you are just exporting an OMF from your NLE down the road.

This would be a VERY simple feature to add IMHO and I sure as hell would LOVE it.

 

[GlennChan]

I think this would be a good idea... it makes a lot of sense.

But perhaps there should be some way of slipping the audio into sync / some way of correcting sync problems. From what I know (and I don't do audio post or dailies), you get audio sync issues in current practice. Michael Most would know more about this than I do... so I'll quote his post:

With digital sound recordings, time code is not the synchronizing signal. It is only a number, stamped once at the beginning of the file, that is used for convenience in locating a particular frame. Sync is achieved by playing the file at its proper rate - i.e., 48KHz if it's recorded that way, other variations on that if it's not. And the use of time code slates is not the panacea, because in more cases than not, they are inaccurate, regardless of what's being said here to the contrary. As someone who's been around these things since Mike Deneke came up with them, I can tell you that's always been the case. If you don't believe me, ask any dailies colorist anywhere in the world. The most accurate, and simplest, way of achieving sync is by using sticks. Simple. Cheap. Accurate. And in digital editing programs, extremely quick to match up. Unless you're shooting documentaries or other somewhat uncontrollable situtations, you're better off just banging sticks than using any time code based or other more exotic synching system. Because it works. Every time.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2593&highlight=sync

*Though I disagree about audio sticks being foolproof. They are mostly foolproof, but you can screw it up if they are out of frame. I've seen people do that.

But certainly if Redcine can scrub footage so you find the clap, show the waveform for +-3 frames or so, lay down markers for video and audio, it should make fixing audio sync errors pretty fast? If you can't find the clap, you can find other things like people saying b or p words. When your lips come together, you make no sound and the waveform reflects that.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

yes, waveform and a slip feature would be GREAT - but not 100% necessary. You can get 99% the way home by syncing via the TC in BWF - and obviously you can slip in the NLE or audio design/edit app (ProTools, Soundtrack Pro, etc.) if you want or need - it's just SO MUCH BETTER to cut in FCP with the audio imbedded in the QT than linked files -

 

[Cail Young]

I quote from the FCP6 manual:

BWF files store only the first timecode number; the remaining timecode numbers are
calculated by Final Cut Pro. Mapping timecode to audio samples is a straightforward
process for frame rates such as 25 fps and 30 fps, but the process is more complex for
29.97 fps video.

So, looks like it will now read BWF timecode.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

I quote from the FCP6 manual:



So, looks like it will now read BWF timecode.

That's a "start" APPLE (yeah, I know for a fact you guys are "lurkers" here) - but you still have to SYNC manually by match-framing via TC and then linking the audio + video - that's a pain in the ass

auto syncing and baking the audio into QT's for editing is MUCH cooler -

 

[Cail Young]

That's a "start" APPLE (yeah, I know for a fact you guys are "lurkers" here) - but you still have to SYNC manually by match-framing via TC and then linking the audio + video - that's a pain in the ass

auto syncing and baking the audio into QT's for editing is MUCH cooler -

I wonder if you could not build a multiclip(s) using timecode syncing and then do a batch export at the end?

 

[Cail Young]

So then I started thinking ... if most folks in features will transcode out of REDCINE to a proxy for edit (ProRes, etc.) - why not add a feature in REDCINE that let's you import BFW files - automatically syncs via TC - then when you export QT's to whatever flavor you like, they have audio inside the self contained QT so you are just exporting an OMF from your NLE down the road.

This would be a VERY simple feature to add IMHO and I sure as hell would LOVE it.

Aside from my conjecture regarding FCP6's abilities, this would be nice, especially if it could export functioning reference movies - much quicker when you're dealing with several hours of rushes...

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

As far as I can tell, there are BUGS and ISSUES with BWF import into FCP6, specifically 23.98 and 24 fps timebase.

I can not express how important of an issue this is going to be.

I am sure Apple can fix it - but you will still have to matchframe, sync and link - and it's just a retarded workflow - RED can hit the ball out of the park by adding a sync feature into REDCINE -