Buying my first RED, Scarlet Dragon vs. Epic Dragon.

[John Paul]

First let me say if there is a thread that already answers my question, I would appreciate a link. Here's the deal, I'll be financing, and I could probably squeeze by and get an Epic over a Scarlet, but would then have to skimp on the accessories and run more of a bare bones set up on the Epic. I work in a local market, and have been putting forth what I hope is good work, on a budget. And trying to support a family, blah blah blah. Anyway, things are picking up, and i find myself doing higher paying jobs and more of them, and so I've been renting various cameras, including the Epic MX, and I'm ready to step up and buy a RED Dragon, because I'm sure that it will be the best workhorse for the level of production that I do.

I've really don't hear much about Scarlet in the industry talk, I don't see people renting scarlets, or using them that much, even for 24p work, and so I'm wondering why that is. It seems to me the distinguishing advantages of EPIC is higher frame rates at higher resolutions. And EPIC shoots 6K FF for video, while Scarlet shoots 5K.

Is the Scarlet the same exact sensor just with the features choked down? Will the image quality when shooting 5K 48 fps on either camera be identical?

Does anyone who owns a RED SCARLET DRAGON have trouble in high end work because "we really want to shoot with the EPIC?," by this I mean if I get a regional commercial, or national, and the agency says that we need to shoot on EPIC, but you're shooting 24p at 5K will anyone notice or care that you used a SCARLET DRAGON?

One last question, can you shoot Full Frame at lower resolutions on the Dragon cameras? i know on the EPIC MX, unless i was missing something , you would shoot cropped for lower resolutions. I would be a lot more comfortable with the Scarlet Dragon purchase if I knew that I could shoot 2k 120fps at Full Frame instead of cropping down to 2K, That way I would be able to maintain the characteristics of the lenses I use.

 

[Maik Müller]

Is the Scarlet the same exact sensor just with the features choked down? Will the image quality when shooting 5K 48 fps on either camera be identical?

Given that you shoot at the exact same settings (REDCODE too) then yes, you'll get identical results. It's the same sensor.

Does anyone who owns a RED SCARLET DRAGON have trouble in high end work because "we really want to shoot with the EPIC?," by this I mean if I get a regional commercial, or national, and the agency says that we need to shoot on EPIC, but you're shooting 24p at 5K will anyone notice or care that you used a SCARLET DRAGON?

Scarlet-D for 24p-work is a better camera than EPIC-X with Mysterium-X. How much stuff has been and still gets shot with those EPICs?

It's time to educate your customers a bit and just show them footage.

One last question, can you shoot Full Frame at lower resolutions on the Dragon cameras? i know on the EPIC MX, unless i was missing something , you would shoot cropped for lower resolutions. I would be a lot more comfortable with the Scarlet Dragon purchase if I knew that I could shoot 2k 120fps at Full Frame instead of cropping down to 2K, That way I would be able to maintain the characteristics of the lenses I use.

Lower resolution is cropped, that didn't change for Dragon-cameras.

If you have the feeling you are going to loose business because your customers want a EPIC (and can get it anywhere else) then thats your reality and you should act accordingly. It's not the best thing when customers hire just the name and maybe don't understand the differences and probably don't even need what EPIC has to offer, but i guess you can't change that. In a perfect world you should get hired because of your skills and the footage you shoot, not because of the name of your camera....

So if you know(!) you are going to get more jobs with an EPIC and if you can squeeze your budget enough to get a working kit then it's a simple decision to make.

 

[Hugh Scully]

I bought the Scarlet Dragon. I really wanted the Dragon sensor and I'm really glad I went this way. The skintones, the richness of color and the DR are worth it. If you do commercials and music videos and you need the HFRs, maybe go with an Epic. But make sure you need them. It's a high price to pay if you don't need it for a lot of gigs. I don't. It may be blasphemy but I don't like stuff past 96 fps.

Also, maybe if you're looking to rent it outright, the Epic might be more valuable to you. I don't rent except to charge my clients for the camera package.

The way I see it, it was enough dough to get into the ecosystem, learn how to use the camera well, learn the workflow and get the necessary accessories. If I had a client that needed the higher frame rates at higher resolution, now I can just rent a body. You're going to love the Dragon.

 

[John Paul]

I think I've decided on the scarlet. Thanks guys for the input. I think it will be very rare that I'll need higher frame rates and resolution than the Scarlet offers. I'm excited to get into the RED community after following the company since it's inception.

 

[Christian Schmitt]

May I ask which camera system you will be migrating from?

 

[John Paul]

Yeah Christian, I have been using a 5d MK II since I started my business 3 years ago. I've rented for higher end projects, but still use the good ole 5D MK II for the majority of my 24p work. I finally feel like I'm in a place to really own pro gear, and that I will get a lot of use out of it, and more importantly have the tools to increase the quality of each and every project.

 

[Alberto Guglielmi]

Hey John,

I am on a similar boat of yours, thinking of getting my first RED. Assuming you went Scarlet, few months later, how do you feel about it?
My choices are probably between a Scarlet Dragon and an Epic X.

thanks,
alberto

 

[jake southard]

Scarlet Dragon for me, It was the sensor that pushed me away from the MX, Dragon sensor has a different look to it.. obviously because it's newer. Frame rates on the Scarlet have been more than good enough to hold me over for a year or so until I lay down for an Epic Dragon.

 

[Brian Merlen]

if possible id suggest holding off on purchasing a ton of accessories so that weapon buyers can kill the second hand market as far as accessory prices go, 1.8 mags, etc. I'm sure you can save a ton if you can hold off on what you can scrape by with atm

 

[DC Chavez]

I started on Scarlet 13k for body 23k by the time I got it fully outfitted with everything I needed to make it operate.

1.5 years later I upgraded to Epic. I shoot a lot of automotive, so the extra FPS was amazing to have. Image quality was better- but also came as they updated REDGamma and REDColor.

1.2 years later upgraded to Epic Dragon. Holy cow. The image quality. Dragon sensor is where its at.

I understand getting your feet wet with Scarlet, but if you can spring for Scarlet Dragon, its a WHOLE different ball game with this sensor. Congrats on entry into the world of RED. You won't be sorry.