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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Buy a Scarlet, or BMPC

J

Jason Walker

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About a month ago I shot a trailer for a documentary with the Red Scarlet to gain potential investors to fund the rest of the film. This was my first time shooting with this quality of video. I fell in love and wanted to buy one. Now that the project is fully funded there’s a huge incentive for me to buy one. I’ve been saving money and have about a budget of 18,000.00 to buy a camera, including all accessories.



With the announcement of the dragon sensor I was hoping the scarlet would have been upgraded in the red store with a price I could afford. After waiting to see if the store would offer the Scarlet-D, like they did for the epic, I contacted Red to see what their plans were for the Scarlet Dragon. After a disappointed answer of no plans on releasing the scarlet-D, they would only do upgrades. That would put the scarlet brain at 17,450.00, 50 dollars cheaper than the epic-x. Out of my budget. Now with the announcement of the Blackmagic Production Camera I no longer see the benefits of the scarlet. I thought about buying used, but most of the time the seller wants 1000-2000 less than it would cost new, after paying the transfer fees it doesn’t seem worth it.



So I’m asking for your guy’s opinion. What do you think is the best option for me? Buy a scarlet then later upgrade, or lose out on equipment fee, and buy a Blackmagic for future work and save to later buy Epic-D? I’m aware of the pros and cons of each camera. I wanted to rent the scarlet out, but being limited to the same resolution and frame rate as the BMPC(in 4K) would it be worth doing? As I couldn’t afford to accesses the 5k and more dynamic range for some time. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Sorry if this is in the wrong section, I'm new here.
 
Regarding the overall progress the next couple of years and the increasing accessability of high end imaging devices, I personally wouldn't invest 18K in a camera anymore. I'm not doing super high-end stuff and personally don't know anyone else who's work would really benefit from the (awesome) Dragon specs. Do you really need it? Have you considered a used Scarlet?

From filmmakerIQ.com:

Just remember that 4K is NOT going to future-proof your footage. The only way to future-proof your footage is shoot something that people in the future will actually give a damn about.
 
Haha. Good point from filmmakeriIQ.

Another consideration is whether you plan to shoot for other people or shoot for yourself. If it's mostly for personal projects, then yeah, the BMPC is probably the right choice, being reasonable on the pocket book.
If shooting for other people, catchwords do have cache; artists and egos by nature want the very, very best for their films, even though that quality may not translate if the story, acting or vision is mediocre. But it's a dangers curve. Buy a Scarlet, buy an epic even, and you're already behind the curve if you don't have Dragon. It's chasing the "dragon by the tail" so to speak. Best to just buy the cheaper camera if it's just a personal camera.
 
Oh, and frame rates. If you need a sustained 100 fps or 120 fps. Well, you need an EPIC
 
Michel Rabe said:
From filmmakerIQ.com:

Just remember that 4K is NOT going to future-proof your footage. The only way to future-proof your footage is shoot something that people in the future will actually give a damn about.
Click to expand...

Doing both however is better. Great content in 4k will sell better in the Future than great content shot in HD. It's not an either/or situation.
 
Jason Walker said:
About a month ago I shot a trailer for a documentary with the Red Scarlet to gain potential investors to fund the rest of the film. This was my first time shooting with this quality of video. I fell in love and wanted to buy one. Now that the project is fully funded there’s a huge incentive for me to buy one. I’ve been saving money and have about a budget of 18,000.00 to buy a camera, including all accessories.
Click to expand...
With that type of budget why not buy a used scarlet. If it was me btw, i would story board/research the crap out of the documentary (so you know all the locations and shots) and rent for a fast shoot schedule.
 
the BMCC has slightly lower DR and limited frame rates....in terms of detail i almost expect the BMCC to slightly beat the scarlet (at 4K) since the BMCC has less compression....but all in all the scarlet is the better more versatile camera....and also of course a lot more expensive....
the biggest issue in your case is simply : when do you start shooting? i doubt BM will allow for another shipping fiasco but since not even the one year old camera is shipping in numbers, there is just no way i would set a start date without having tested the camera....and in this case nobody has seen footage and nobody knows when it will actually ship....i waited for the first BMC and trust me....it wasn't fun....
just like i would not plan on shooting with anything red dragon related for at least another 6 months....
 
Jason Rudd said:
Haha. Good point from filmmakeriIQ.

Another consideration is whether you plan to shoot for other people or shoot for yourself. If it's mostly for personal projects, then yeah, the BMPC is probably the right choice, being reasonable on the pocket book.
If shooting for other people, catchwords do have cache; artists and egos by nature want the very, very best for their films, even though that quality may not translate if the story, acting or vision is mediocre. But it's a dangers curve. Buy a Scarlet, buy an epic even, and you're already behind the curve if you don't have Dragon. It's chasing the "dragon by the tail" so to speak. Best to just buy the cheaper camera if it's just a personal camera.
Click to expand...

It would be for paying work. My hopes were to rent it until it paid for itself and get on low budget films. Most of my work is at the low end of the market, but I don't want to do that forever. Thanks
 
PatrickFaith said:
With that type of budget why not buy a used scarlet. If it was me btw, i would story board/research the crap out of the documentary (so you know all the locations and shots) and rent for a fast shoot schedule.
Click to expand...

The camera budget for this shoot is 5,000.00. I have 10 saved up. Unfortunately we can’t just go in and knock it out as quickly as we like. We’re following around a sports team for a month. Thanks
 
Michel Rabe said:
Regarding the overall progress the next couple of years and the increasing accessability of high end imaging devices, I personally wouldn't invest 18K in a camera anymore. I'm not doing super high-end stuff and personally don't know anyone else who's work would really benefit from the (awesome) Dragon specs. Do you really need it? Have you considered a used Scarlet?

From filmmakerIQ.com:

Just remember that 4K is NOT going to future-proof your footage. The only way to future-proof your footage is shoot something that people in the future will actually give a damn about.
Click to expand...

Most of my work doesn’t require that amount of quality. It makes sense to just rent out when those jobs come up. Thanks
 
paul schefz said:
the BMCC has slightly lower DR and limited frame rates....in terms of detail i almost expect the BMCC to slightly beat the scarlet (at 4K) since the BMCC has less compression....but all in all the scarlet is the better more versatile camera....and also of course a lot more expensive....
the biggest issue in your case is simply : when do you start shooting? i doubt BM will allow for another shipping fiasco but since not even the one year old camera is shipping in numbers, there is just no way i would set a start date without having tested the camera....and in this case nobody has seen footage and nobody knows when it will actually ship....i waited for the first BMC and trust me....it wasn't fun....
just like i would not plan on shooting with anything red dragon related for at least another 6 months....
Click to expand...

We start in August. I know the frustration people must of had waiting on the 2k camera so I'm not even considering shooting with the BMPC. We would just rent a Scarlet to finish it up. Thanks
 
I could list a bunch of reasons, but just do yourself a favour and rent. You'll have more money to spend on the rest of the project and won't be tied to one camera system.
 
Buy a used scarlet.. By the time you'll receive your BMCC, it will be time for you to upgrade anyway.. And you would probably done shooting 3 productions. Scarlett is around now and there is a ton of support. In addition the resale value of a scarlet far outweighs your worries and the value of probably 2 brand new BMCC.. My2cents... Good luck with everything.
 
You have to ask yourself, do you really want to buy a camera that is not available to you now?
August can be December for BMD if you haven't learned the first time.
And why take that chance?
Buy a used one or rent an EPIC.

Pay it forward ;)
 
What people don't bring up is workflow. Shooting raw on BMC it eats data, there is no way to compress it besides baking it in to prores or dnxhd, from what I understand. I have played with one at Abelcine, but never used a BMC professionally. I was in the same boat 6 months ago, went Scarlet instead... Now am going for Scarlet Dragon. I still haven't learned my lesson yet..
 
One thing to consider is whether the camera you choose will even be available when you need it. You can't get your hands on Scarlet-D or BMPC for awhile.

And, if Scarlet footage was good enough to get you the funding in the first place, why not start there? Then in a few months you can decide what you would like next.
 
Two very different cameras with very different purposes. I can see the BMPC being a GoPro/Crash cam killer. As for being a professional workhorse camera like the Scarlet is, it's not in the same league.
 
Re your concern about rental budget for the project time..
ask several rental houses, if they know for sure how many dollars they'll get in a fixed time, they may go for a sure dollars client who is paying less than the theoretical not yet booking multiple clients...
Your cash is the bird in the hand to them..
This will let you really wring out the camera capabilities and practice with it without having to worry about amortizing it at all.
 
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