Burning Best Quality DVDs

[Seung Han]

Hey Guys,

I've been using Compressor to burn DVDs with the best quality settings for MPEG 2 at 6.2Mbps 2-pass, and I am unhappy with the results.

I was wondering if anybody knew a better method or software of burning mov files into high quality DVDs?

Thanks.

 

[Fran Kuhn]

Seung,

I feel your pain.

Last month I lost about three days of my life trying every possible combination to get a high-quality DVD in Compressor via Final Cut Pro 6: 2-pass, single pass, Variable Bit Rate, Constant Bit Rate, etc. That MPEG-2 6.2Mbps 2 pass looks horrible on my 46-inch Sony flat screen. Or on YouTube, for that matter.

Nothing worked until I tried the Compressor HD-DVD settings. Those produce a dramatically better rendering, but the HD-DVD format is dead, so the HD-DVDs will only play in on my Mac or on an HD-DVD player if you have one of those. If you put it in a Blu-Ray player, you'll get an "Incompatible Format" error message on the screen.

I believe the latest version of Compressor in FCP 7 supports Blu-Ray, but you'll have to go buy an external Blu-Ray burner.

I'm going to keep an eye on this thread. Maybe someone will have mercy on us and explain some way to get a decent DVD from FCP.

-Fran

 

[Tom.Wong]

http://www.compressorpack.com/

i use this for most of my encoding, it's got a great mojo/formula and I've gotten great results out of it. Saves me the headache of always messing with settings, I used to mess around with it for days too, and decided to save myself, spend 50 bucks and just bought presets.

However, if you want a SD DVD to look good on a 46 inch+ television, I'd have to say it's not going to look good. I don't have a single commercially bought dvd that looks good on large panels, and dvd players can claim 1080p upconvert all the want, it doesn't do much. 720x480 resolution blown up that big is gonna look bad, especially when your eyes and brain are used to hi def and beyond now. One of the reasons why Red exists, so the stuff you shoot stays looking good...

 

[Fran Kuhn]

http://www.compressorpack.com/

i use this for most of my encoding, it's got a great mojo/formula and I've gotten great results out of it. Saves me the headache of always messing with settings, I used to mess around with it for days too, and decided to save myself, spend 50 bucks and just bought presets.

However, if you want a SD DVD to look good on a 46 inch+ television, I'd have to say it's not going to look good. I don't have a single commercially bought dvd that looks good on large panels, and dvd players can claim 1080p upconvert all the want, it doesn't do much. 720x480 resolution blown up that big is gonna look bad, especially when your eyes and brain are used to hi def and beyond now. One of the reasons why Red exists, so the stuff you shoot stays looking good...

Thanks, Tom. I'll have to check that out.

I have a follow-up question: Wouldn't RED footage look just as crappy going through the SD-DVD Compressor settings? I mean, the same footage I originally rendered using Compressor's Best Quality DVD 2-pass MPEG-2 looks amazing when I use the HD-DVD settings. From what I can tell, Compressor in FCP 6 does a nice job when set to HD-DVD, it just lacks a Blu-Ray option.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

-Fran

 

[Tom.Wong]

For personal viewing I would go the rough of compressing a blu ray player compatible file, benefits of having a playstation 3 actually. I believe compressor has a semi AVCHD like setting that will allow you to do this.

I also believe the new compressor has a direct to BD option, but I have not used it just remembering seeing the icon, i don't have BD burner. But they are getting cheaper now, and Encore and media encoder are probably best routes for high quality BD options.

Honestly, I'm incredibly spoiled by hi def, and beyond to 4k. I have a hard time watching any standard def material anymore. I have to walk away from the TV when my girlfriend is watching something in SD. 55 inch Samsung LED, if it's not HD, it looks like garbage. So you can tweak the settings all you want, big panels won't look good, period.

 

[Fran Kuhn]

For personal viewing I would go the rough of compressing a blu ray player compatible file, benefits of having a playstation 3 actually. I believe compressor has a semi AVCHD like setting that will allow you to do this.

I also believe the new compressor has a direct to BD option, but I have not used it just remembering seeing the icon, i don't have BD burner. But they are getting cheaper now, and Encore and media encoder are probably best routes for high quality BD options.

Honestly, I'm incredibly spoiled by hi def, and beyond to 4k. I have a hard time watching any standard def material anymore. I have to walk away from the TV when my girlfriend is watching something in SD. 55 inch Samsung LED, if it's not HD, it looks like garbage. So you can tweak the settings all you want, big panels won't look good, period.

Thanks, Tom.

BTW: Is it just me. or are all those settings and choices in Compressor absolutely, utterly confusing? I'm afraid to Google AVCHD--I'll loose another five hours for sure and probably be even more confused.

I have an 800-plus page USAF Pilot's Flight Manual for a McDonnell Douglas F-4E Phantom II fighter jet sitting on my desk. Yesterday I figured out how to start the engines, calculate and monitor fuel rate at various altitudes and operate the Fire Control System in less time than it took me to figure out what the difference was between 2-pass and single pass VBR.

Wonder if I can still get into the Air Force Academy.

-Fran

 

[Mark Collins]

For personal viewing I would go the rough of compressing a blu ray player compatible file, benefits of having a playstation 3 actually. I believe compressor has a semi AVCHD like setting that will allow you to do this.

I also believe the new compressor has a direct to BD option, but I have not used it just remembering seeing the icon, i don't have BD burner. But they are getting cheaper now, and Encore and media encoder are probably best routes for high quality BD options.

Honestly, I'm incredibly spoiled by hi def, and beyond to 4k. I have a hard time watching any standard def material anymore. I have to walk away from the TV when my girlfriend is watching something in SD. 55 inch Samsung LED, if it's not HD, it looks like garbage. So you can tweak the settings all you want, big panels won't look good, period.

Just confirming that yes, the latest version of Compressor does have direct to Blu Ray options. It also has AVCHD options for those without a blu ray burrner.

AVCHD looks the same as blu ray, and it will work just fine in a blu ray player provided that your file is not over 4.6 gigs, something of an issue for longer films.

 

[Tom.Wong]

Compressor isn't intuitive, but it's another one of those programs, where once you know it, you know it.

VBR standing for variable bit rate produces better motion and seemingly higher quality, with more efficient file sizes by way of analyzing the footage and increases the bitrate at which it encodes as it needs it. The more detail and motion a portion of the footage has, it will increase the bitrate, static low detail portions it will lower it cause it doesn't really need it, and the software will try to figure it out all for you. So by setting it to 6.2 to 7.2 mbps for example, the encoder will fluctuate between that. Doing a two pass basically for lack of better terms I have, double checks it for you, and gives you a even better looking image because it's doing that calculations that much more precisely now.

you should check out kenstone's website for some compressor tutorials, and interface introductions, it helped me a lot in the beginning and the rest was trial and error till I figured it all out.

 

[Fran Kuhn]

Just confirming that yes, the latest version of Compressor does have direct to Blu Ray options. It also has AVCHD options for those without a blu ray burrner.

AVCHD looks the same as blu ray, and it will work just fine in a blu ray player provided that your file is not over 4.6 gigs, something of an issue for longer films.

Hi Mark,

Sorry for sounding like a total idiot, but is there some way you can point me at an explanation of the workflow using this AVCHD compression (it is a type of comperssion, right?)

In FCP, when I select "Export Using Compressor", the Compressor interface pops up and all I see are the various default choices built into little folders (MPEG-2 2-Pass or HD-DVD for instance).

How do I specify settings for AVCHD? Or is this AVCHD some front-end setting you specify in FCP Preferences prior to building your project? I'm confused, and can't seem to get a straight answer anywhere, even after rabbit-hole-ing for hours on Google and Youtube. I'd ask my 11 year-old filmmaker neighbor kid, but he's out for two weeks teaching music theory at Band Camp.

Thanks,

-Fran

 

[Tom.Wong]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-ZVFBp22_k

 

[Mark Collins]

Hi Mark,

Sorry for sounding like a total idiot, but is there some way you can point me at an explanation of the workflow using this AVCHD compression (it is a type of comperssion, right?)

In FCP, when I select "Export Using Compressor", the Compressor interface pops up and all I see are the various default choices built into little folders (MPEG-2 2-Pass or HD-DVD for instance).

How do I specify settings for AVCHD? Or is this AVCHD some front-end setting you specify in FCP Preferences prior to building your project? I'm confused, and can't seem to get a straight answer anywhere, even after rabbit-hole-ing for hours on Google and Youtube. I'd ask my 11 year-old filmmaker neighbor kid, but he's out for two weeks teaching music theory at Band Camp.

Thanks,

-Fran

Ok, don;t quote me on this since I'm not 100% sure and don;t have any dvd's to test this out. It's been a while since I've burned the AVCHD's discs.

So, basically when you bring your project files into compressor, it'll ask you to choose a template for your batch. When you're setting up your setting, set the job action as "Create Blu Ray". If you have a DVD burner selected it should burn it as an AVCHD. If memory serves me correctly it usually automatically detects that you're burning a blu ray file onto a DVD and automatically burns it as AVCHD.

I'm not sure which format you should have your video in as I always export from FCP as Apple Pro Res and that seems to work just fine.

Again, that;s how I think you do it, but I'm not 100% sure since it;s been a while, and I'm not exactly a post guy to begin with.

 

[Fran Kuhn]

Ok, don;t quote me on this since I'm not 100% sure and don;t have any dvd's to test this out. It's been a while since I've burned the AVCHD's discs.

So, basically when you bring your project files into compressor, it'll ask you to choose a template for your batch. When you're setting up your setting, set the job action as "Create Blu Ray". If you have a DVD burner selected it should burn it as an AVCHD. If memory serves me correctly it usually automatically detects that you're burning a blu ray file onto a DVD and automatically burns it as AVCHD.

I'm not sure which format you should have your video in as I always export from FCP as Apple Pro Res and that seems to work just fine.

Again, that;s how I think you do it, but I'm not 100% sure since it;s been a while, and I'm not exactly a post guy to begin with.

Mark (and Tom):

Thanks for the help. I have Compressor V3.0.5, apparently it doesn't have the "Create New Batch From Template" command, so I'm out of luck.

Thanks for your time with these explanations, though. I'll bookmark that YouTube Compressor tutorial, Tom. Eventually I'll upgrade my FCP to the newer version.

-Fran

 

[Eric S.]

Thanks, Tom.

BTW: Is it just me. or are all those settings and choices in Compressor absolutely, utterly confusing? I'm afraid to Google AVCHD--I'll loose another five hours for sure and probably be even more confused.

I have an 800-plus page USAF Pilot's Flight Manual for a McDonnell Douglas F-4E Phantom II fighter jet sitting on my desk. Yesterday I figured out how to start the engines, calculate and monitor fuel rate at various altitudes and operate the Fire Control System in less time than it took me to figure out what the difference was between 2-pass and single pass VBR.

Wonder if I can still get into the Air Force Academy.

-Fran

You bring up an excellent point. The aircraft industry, to my limited understanding, has become adept at crafting efficient instructions and flight checklists over the past few decades. Other industries, including ours, may benefit from a closer analysis of their practices.

 

[Michael Olsen]

Other industries, including ours, may benefit from a closer analysis of their practices.

There was a report I read on CNN a while back about the novel use of a "Pre-Surgical Checklist" - which apparently isn't standard operating procedure in the vast vast majority of ORs. Using it in three hospitals reduced accidental deaths by something disgusting like 70%. Efficiently written technical manuals are a thing of brilliance. These days, I'm happy to get something that seems to be written by a native English speaker.

That being said, compressor really doesn't make the simple output of High Quality DVDs a priority. I feel like there are some legacy settings in there from a few years ago (perhaps when the processing power wasn't equal to today's) that just don't make sense - who would really want to render out a nastily compressed DVD these days? Yet there are plenty such settings to choose from...

 

[Subhadip Sen]

The best encoder out there is CinemaCraft, and this is what the studios use. Sadly, it is expensive. The next best encoder is HCEnc. To get the best quality DVD, render your movie/video as a Lossless codec (preferably) or a high quality codec file. I use Lagarith lossless codec. Download AVStoDVD, add this high quality file, and choose HCEnc best quality settings. You can either render to a DVD directly, or to a DVD compatible M2V in case you have further DVD menu creation etc. in mind on a mastering software. You will find that the HCEnc encoded DVD video is of a far superior quality than the likes of Compressor, Encore or Vegas Studio Architect can offer.

 

[Alex.Mitchell]

I find burning good looking DVDs using MPEG2 files created in Compressor pretty easy. The important thing to remember is that while you need to know your way around the MPEG2 compression options, the Frame Controls tab has a huge bearing on IQ. Scaling algorithms are especially important depending on what format you're originating in.

I will say that Compressor is far from perfect though. For one reason or another it always seems to ignore my compression markers whenever I encode in CBR. Big pain in the ass. Still, for all intents and purposes I have very few problems with it other than that.

 

[Dennis Brucks]

Pulling a Lazarus on this old thread...

Strange lack of good, clear information on the topic of DVD authoring, something I'd think 95% of us encounter...

I shot a short in 5K, edited in FCP in 1080p ProRes, exported this as .MOV file ---> the movie looks fantastic on my Mac. Nice.

I bring file into iDVD, create my nice menu, then watch a bit of the movie using iDVD preview tool: quality still looks perfect.

I burn the file to DVD then play back on my TV: is akin to someone smearing shit on my face.

Maybe not that bad....but definite blocky pixelation that exists neither in the source MOV file nor the iDVD playback, which tells me it's iDVD. Seems clearcut until I tried using Toast Titanium (abandoning my nice menu), and result is same dogshit-smear quality.

I was considering exporting 2K lossless files from RCX, then came across info pointing to using HC Encoder...but the encoding seems fine...I mean it only looks like shit once iDVD/Toast comes into the picture, so the encoding's not the issue....right?

My purpose is to have the best possible DVDs created for use in film festival exhibition so I can achieve fortune, glory, fame, and women. Any tips appreciated.

Edit: Here's the movie on Vimeo: http://vimeo.com/40126971 ---> this quality looks very close to the source .MOV file, including the minor pixelation on the out of focus background wall/boy's face in the opening shot -- so maybe this could even be improved by re-encoding @ 2K? (though this still doesn't pardon iDVD from fucking things up additionally)

 

[Mike P.]

Try HC Encoder and I've heard good things from Sorensen Squeeze... the Avid one... But, yeah, I don't understand how things go to crap when using different DVD encoders... Might be worthwhile investing in a Blu-Ray burner (they tend to look a lot less shit-smeared.) OR submit digitally?

Edit: may I ask where you got the rights to Bolero? Royalty free or something?

 

[Dennis Brucks]

http://www.ascap.com --> this is generally where you find who owns the publishing rights (Ravel's composition is now public domain so I just needed the master recording rights).

Are my only options transcoding to 2K (which sounds PAINSTAKING) to compensate for the poor DVD quality, or having a house burn to Blu-Ray?

 

[Subhadip Sen]

Dennis, sounds like an issue at your DVD player / TV end. It is hard to know what it is, perhaps you can do some more tests (play other DVDs, play on other TVs etc) and find out.

As an update to the thread, 18 months later, CinemaCraft's price has fallen drastically to $850 as their Bluray encoder takes over as the flagship. It is still the best DVD encoder out there.

That said, HCEnc HQ 2-pass is still excellent, and comes indistinguishably close to CinemaCraft in most cases.