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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

building vista64/adobe machine

an important consideration for raid 5 is even though you can use just 3 drives...you should have a 4th drive of the same make and model in case of failure.

when the failure occurs, most likely it will be years from now, and if you want to rebuild your raid array you should have a fourth drive handy....which may be discontinued at that point.

there are other raid schemes like raid 6 ect that are worth looking into
but the popular ones are raid 0,1,5,10
 
So, the chances are very high that most projects will require a transcode of the 4K R3D files into an industry standard HD format (uncompressed QT, Cineform, DVCproHD, DNXHD, etc.) for online editorial - and maybe 2K/4K DPX or TIFF frames for sequences that require heavy VFX compositing.

Uncompressed 1080HD and 2K DPX require almost an order of magnitude more disc bandwidth than RC28 4K R3D files in order to play back smoothly in realtime. About 200-230MB/s for a single stream at 24fps.

If you are doing multistream "online" editing - or multilayer compositing using the above formats, then you are probably gonna want at least 700MB/s to 1000MB/s in disc performance to maintain the productivity you would want.

This type of bandwidth is going to require somewhere between 10 to 16 SATA drives, depending on the type/speed drives you purchase. YOu will need an external RAID chassis if you don't have room in your new PC case.

If you decide you can do your project in "compressed" formats such as ProRes, Cineform, DNxHD, DVCPro HD, etc. then you can get away with a much lower performance RAID array - and will need alot less drives. Maybe you could do it with 3 or 4 drives.

oh! The same thing will likely be true for Adobe's realtime R3D multi-layer editing and compositing as was recently announced and demo'd. Working natively with R3D clips will be awesome from a disc storage perspective!
 
Minimum processor??

Minimum processor??

Jay A. Kelley said:
Uh.. You should take a look at this:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18929

J
Click to expand...
The link doesn't work... ?

The whole debate about SSD is interesting but makes me think I should stay away from them for now. The intel seams to be the only choice but it's too expensive for me. As for raid config, I'll probably set up a raid 5 for footage storage, but not as a system disk. It just doesn't seam worth it.

But my main concern is about the motherboard&processor. I'm still confused about what to go for. My purpose here is to build a station "powerfull enough" to edit red in premiere at a descent resolution and do some work in After effects. AND, to save money, so that I can invest again in 6 month on an other station better equiped.

So... Right now, all I know is I should go for a quad core proc, 8gb of ram.
But... Is a xeon the only option? Or could I go for a processor like the Quad Q9550? Would that be enough? I get really confused looking at all the processors... between the extreme, the quads, xeons, some duo that are more expensive than quads...???

Any tips?
 
mdharrington said:
Adam have you seen this

http://www.fusionio.com/Products.aspx

600MB/sec write
700MB/sec read

about $30 a gig right now

if you guys had these in your 'boxxes' you would have a big leg up
right now they have cards up to 320gig
Click to expand...

got one. ;)

We're "playing" with this technology...

But right now, they aren't exactly competitive from a cost/performance standpoint but solid state memory devices are getting cheaper every day and i'm sure that at some point, spinning magnetic media will be a thing of the past.
 
C.K. said:
My purpose here is to build a station "powerfull enough" to edit red in premiere at a descent resolution and do some work in After effects.
Click to expand...

For about the same amount of money, you could buy a Mac tower, be able to use great tools like Redrushes to render out your footage AND be able to boot it as a Windows machine when you want to use Premiere/After Effects.
 
Nice thread...and information.
Usually i work raid 0 arrays and backup daily/half daily from 1 raid 0 to the other on a separate machine. i like it, it's simple and i understand the risk.
I feel the way to go is, is to make 2 x simple fast machines,then 18months later when your system if dust, you don't have to go thru the hoops you went thru initially....when you had to configure the bios this way, or download that particular driver etc.
One problem however i have is vista64 network i/o is sloooow (even with SP1 etc).
Has anybody used 'cheap' fibre cards and got better performance (>100MB/s)
D
 
Ok... After a lot of reading, I think i'm gonna go for a Core 2 Q9550 along with a asus P5E3 premium and a 10000RPM raptor for the system disk.

Seams like the best compromise between performances and price... And hopefully, when the adobe plugin is out and optimized for performances, it will be enough to read red in premiere @1024...

I'm still not sure about the ram. There are many kinds, but I'm not sure what difference each will make... any advice?
 
Computer on the cheap

Computer on the cheap

This forum has been helpful in many ways, mostly when I comes to RAID options. I recently just had my system turd on me and am looking to upgrade to something that will be R3D. capable. I've seen how Adobe is pitching the plug in is going to work, it seems as if for slower systems you could set the resolution to a lower setting, then when you go to output, simply take your edit and link the media back up to it's intended output resolution. It seems an easy way for slower systems to have a workflow around such big files. So my question to those who know what there talking about, if someone is willing to edit a 4k file at a smaller resolution, what kind of system can they get away with and edit real time with no choppiness?

Best bang for you buck situation. I'm hearing Skulltrail, 8 Core, and RAID 10 on this thread. Is there and ASUS, Quad Core, RAID 0 solution?

My board and processer and video card are what I need to upgrade, I was looking at Newegg and this is what I was looking at:

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz 2 x 4MB L2 Cache LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor, which is easily OC'd with some cooling.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017

ASUS RAMPAGE FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X48 ATX Intel Motherboard had good reviews and seems reasonably easy with the OC.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131284

As for the video card, it's hard to choose, there are a lot in the $200-$300 dollar range that seem pretty decent. I was looking at this one because it seems pretty good for the price::
EVGA 512-P3-N871-AR GeForce 9800 GTX(G92) 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130339

Would I need two of these video cards SLI'd or would one be fine?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
 
MrOBs, I like your post. This topic's title refers to building a vista 64/adobe machine so I'll try and steer it back that way.

I'm considering one of two options for a vista/adobe machine to edit RED camera footage. The first option (the one I would prefer) is to just get a single quad-core processor, 8GB of RAM, and some fast RAID (either 0/5/10/01/etc.) as well as a fancy video card and overclock the beast. In trying to spec this machine out, I've run across some pretty substantial questions:

1) Is 4 cores enough or do I need to get a dual-socket board like the skulltrail so I can install two processors? I'm guessing that 'fast enough' is open to interpretation but can anyone give me a rough idea of the difference between a 4-core machine and an 8-core machine in terms of the adobe workflow? Can I edit 2k reference footage with a 4-core machine? Can I edit 1k reference footage? When i render my final output, how much faster is the 8-core? Some benchmarks here would be amazing.

2) What kind of video card to get? I have read some rumblings about CS4 using a GPU to speed things up and apparently Adobe used Nvidia quadro cards when developing CS4. I'm partial to the ati4870 myself. Will CS4 benefit from an ATI card? Are nvidia cards better? Is an nvida quadro fx1700 better than a 280? Can anyone recommend a video card that really helps with the adobe workflow that doesn't cost $2500? I'm just wondering which, if any, cards are particularly well-suited to the adobe workflow.

3) Is there an industry-standard external RAID storage scheme? It's beginning to be apparent that fast RAID is going to be critical for dealing with these huge files in any reasonable time frame. I fully expect to put RAID inside my box but I am going to need an external unit for a) backup and b) to deliver results to a production house. I've seen external RAID enclosures on newegg.com but have noticed that most all of them connect via some internal PCI card -- and these cards differ for different enclosures. Is there some common connector standard or chipset in use industry-wide? I'd hate to get the one external RAID enclosure that no one can connect to.

I'll post the system I'm considering in my next post.
 
I have the Rampage board and it's been great.
Probably the best DDR2 motherboard currently available.

My cpu is the Intel 9450 overclocked to 3 GHZ with a 3rd party cooler
from my previous system.
But because these run cooler by default than the Q6600 Kentsfield,
the stock cooler would probably be fine.

My memory is 8 GB of Gskill 800 MHZ.

My video card is the Nvidia 7950 which is the weakest link
in the system but does work well. If you can't pop for a Quadro video card,
then I would look at the new Nvidia GTX 200 series(GTX 260 and 280).
SLI won't do anything for you in terms of editing.

I've been using Vista x64 since it was available as a beta and as much as I hate it, it's still been the most compatible and best working OS than the other 64 bit flavors of Windows; especially with all the eyecandy and unnecessary background processes shut off.

Well that's my 2 cents worth for now.

Hope it goes well for you.
 
I was considering the Rampage Extreme (DDR3, on-board RAID) for an extra $100.

Any thoughts on the difference between an Nvidia Quadro vs. a GTX 280? I know the high-end quadros are quite dear (~$2,500) and am wondering what the damn difference is. I'm also wondering which card might best accelerate CS4 applications. I found an article (link) but it's pretty short on detail.

Thanks for the tip about vista. I will definitely plan to get a 64-bit OS for this machine as it's critical if you want to get more than 3.2GB of RAM. There still seems to be some confusion about whether the applications involved are going to be 32 bit or 64 bit. Can't help but wonder what limitations might be caused by a 32-bit application running on a 64-bit OS.

Most importantly, how do you like using that rig? Are you using it to work on RED footage? If so, are there any particular things you do that take a really long time? What sorts of file sizes are you dealing with? I'm really trying to determine how necessary an additional processor might be or whether it's possible to kick some butt using a single quad-core machine.
 
Here's the system I was looking at. I'm anxious to hear if any folks are using a comparable system and what their experience might be like.

Budget Box
* ASUS Rampage Extreme, $390. Do I really need DDR3 and RAID or should I just go for the Rampage Formula and save $100?
* Intel Q9650, $570. The stock 3ghz clock speed and 95w power consumption suggest this chip might overclock well.
* 8GB G. Skill DDR3 1600mhz Dual Channel RAM (4 x 2GB), $500. Faster than the FSB rating of the CPUs, but equal to that of the MOBO.
* PNY Quadro4 NVS440 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Workstation Video Card, $450
* 4 x Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST31000340AS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive, $560. In the RAID config supported by the mobo.
* Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 250GB Hard Drive, $60
* PC Power & Cooling S75QB 750W psu, $145. This psu is just a stab in the dark for me. It is well reviewed, affordable, and offers 750w of power. I'm wondering if it will have power connectors for all those SATA drives in the raid config.
* XCLIO Wind Tunnel Full Tower Case, $120. Another stab in the dark here. This case is apparently very large - so large it is sometimes hard to connect things. Should also provide good airflow for hot components.
* LG Blu-Ray burner, $220. Requested by my buddy.

TOTAL: $3,014.87
 
wow thanks for putting this list together. I'd love to see if anyone knows any issues with this list. I would also add a creative soundcard and a DVD burner.
 
sneakyimp said:
Here's the system I was looking at. I'm anxious to hear if any folks are using a comparable system and what their experience might be like.

Budget Box
* ASUS Rampage Extreme, $390. Do I really need DDR3 and RAID or should I just go for the Rampage Formula and save $100?
* Intel Q9650, $570. The stock 3ghz clock speed and 95w power consumption suggest this chip might overclock well.
* 8GB G. Skill DDR3 1600mhz Dual Channel RAM (4 x 2GB), $500. Faster than the FSB rating of the CPUs, but equal to that of the MOBO.
* PNY Quadro4 NVS440 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Workstation Video Card, $450
* 4 x Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST31000340AS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive, $560. In the RAID config supported by the mobo.
* Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 250GB Hard Drive, $60
* PC Power & Cooling S75QB 750W psu, $145. This psu is just a stab in the dark for me. It is well reviewed, affordable, and offers 750w of power. I'm wondering if it will have power connectors for all those SATA drives in the raid config.
* XCLIO Wind Tunnel Full Tower Case, $120. Another stab in the dark here. This case is apparently very large - so large it is sometimes hard to connect things. Should also provide good airflow for hot components.
* LG Blu-Ray burner, $220. Requested by my buddy.

TOTAL: $3,014.87
Click to expand...

I was looking into the PNY Quadro4 NVS440 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Workstation Video Card, but it looks like it is only supported up to XP. Are there drivers that would update them to take advatage of 64 bit Vista OS? I believe Photoshop is one of the only programs in CS4 to take advatage, but more and more programs will get there.

I was doing some research into the pros of a good GPU Video card for CS4 and I came up with some links. Check them out:

CPU, GPU, multi-core: http://blogs.adobe.com/kevin.goldsmith/2008/09/cpu_gpu_multico.html

Premiere Pro CS4 gpu effects: http://help.adobe.com/en_US/PremierePro/4.0/WSED58A5B5-8DFE-4573-84D5-F6515096975C.html

After Effects CS4 gpu effects: http://help.adobe.com/en_US/AfterEffects/9.0/WS3878526689cb91655866c1103a4f2dff7-79e8a.html

Links to update your drivers should you need to: http://www.adobe.com/products/aftereffects/opengl.html
 
now looking at a system built on the new Intel I7 chip and the ASUS motherboard to go with that, and the new DDR3 RAM

anyone build a system like that? does anyone know if Redcine works well on vista 64bit?

Mike
 
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