Building the PERFECT kit for the Red One

[Ghandi El-Chamaa]

As the subject states I'm trying to build a new Red kit to hire out on shoots that will put a big smile on ANY AC/Camera Op's face.

So to all you AC's Camera OP's what would you like?

Here's where I stand...

* = Haven't decided
> = decided
- = Own already

- Arri LMB15 for handheld and Arri MB19 for studio.
- Filter: Hot mirror and set of ND's
- Arri FF4
- ARRI whip
- 3 Stage C-Motion.
- Gone with the Zacuto mount over the ET mount
- I have the IDX Elite battery system (you can view battery life in the EVF) with 4 batteries plus charger - If all fully charged will last you the whole day on a normal charging rotation - each battery lasts 93 minutes with EVF, 7inch LCD and drive. They take 3 and half hours to re-charge.
- Going for ARRI style Base plate 19mm
- IDX Ia300 power supply
- IDX battery plate
- 19mm ET lightweight rod rail sytem - 4", 6", 12",18" and 24"
- O'connor 2575
- Dual swap battery pack with swivel (Action products)
- ET Mantis handheld
- Red Pro primes - bloody nice set
- Ultra Primes for higher end work
- Lens cleaning kit, Kimwipes plus Ultra clarity solution.
- 1 640gb drive
- 4 x 16gb CF cards
- 2 Lexar professional UDMA firewire 800 compact flash readers. 1 Sandisk firewire Extreme reader,

Any helpful comments from you guys would be great and if you're in the UK and want to hire it when its ready I'll give you a discount for any helpful comments you post on here.

Ghandi
Film Band Ltd

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Ghandi, here are some suggestions.

- Add some shorty rods in there. 4 and 6" variety will do. I have ACs that request this all the time.

- I like the ET EVF mount and you might wan to consider getting the extension for it as well.

- Get a pair of baby legs in addition to standards and hi-hat

- If you can afford it get a wireless follow focus system. Bartech or Preston.

- ET shockmount for drives

- As a DIT I would want at least two drives and preferably 3 or 4. The reason is so you can swap throughout the day, stay ahead with backups and not have to erase the media until everything has been verified by checksum and visually. One drive is asking for trouble.

- Mantis is a great handheld solution, but not the same offering as a Stedicam. They are two completely independent support systems and give different looks. I'd go with Mantis and let the Stedicam guys use their own gear and provide you the best results.

-RED 18-85 is a good lens, but I have had some ACs that don't like it. They are comparing it to lenses that cost many times more though, so keep that in mind.

- For follow focus, have all versons of the whips and the speed crank.

I'm sure others will have great suggestions, so I'll stop there.

Merry Christmas!

 

[Ghandi El-Chamaa]

Thanks Steve, you the man

Sounds like I'll have to give in and get another drive, but only one more for now. That is if certain rumours going around are realised then we won't rely so much on the drives....

I've had a look at the Zacuto Zwivel which is really nice, simple and effective and about £700 or $800 (based on UK&US prices) cheaper then the ET - leaning toward that at the mo. But again I want to put smiles on AC's faces so I'll hold back until I get some support on this.

Anyone have any links to the Red Pro zoom would love a look. Does it not match the RPP's then?

300mm and 900mm - I'll start with the 300mm and get the 900mm later then.

I'm considering the bartech as it's within a reasonable budget - I'd rather outsource the Preston if requested as it's damned expensive.

Just had a look at this http://www.gearnex.com/index.php and I'm intrigued to know what others think - old school, great and works on the Red. Not overly expensive either.

Ghandi
Updating the first post as I go.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Thanks Steve, you the man

Sounds like I'll have to give in and get another drive, but only one more for now. That is if certain rumours going around are realised then we won't rely so much on the drives....

You could certainly get by with two for the time being. As long as you are not relying on just one, you'll be okay.

I've had a look at the Zacuto Zwivel which is really nice, simple and effective and about £700 or $800 (based on UK&US prices) cheaper then the ET - leaning toward that at the mo. But again I want to put smiles on AC's faces so I'll hold back until I get some support on this.

I've never used one of the Zacuto mounts but have seen them in a demo video and it looks like it works okay. Perhaps someone else has used both and can comment.

Anyone have any links to the Red Pro zoom would love a look. Does it not match the RPP's then?

Don't want to make it sound like it's a bad lens. It's certainly pro quality. And for the price, hard to beat. But if money was no object, there are some other zooms in that range that some of the DPs and ACs I've worked with prefer.

300mm and 900mm - I'll start with the 300mm and get the 900mm later then.

Just wait and get the other one when you need it or it's requested for a job. You can always rent too.

I'm considering the bartech as it's within a reasonable budget - I'd rather outsource the Preston if requested as it's damned expensive.

In my opinion, you only buy the Preston if you feel you can get the ROI on it and need a top notch wireless focus system. Otherwise, the Bartech is very nice and affordable and most ACs won't complain.

Just had a look at this http://www.gearnex.com/index.php and I'm intrigued to know what others think - old school, great and works on the Red. Not overly expensive either.

Saw them at REDuser event in Vegas this past year and it looked like a very nice geared head. I was impressed with what it can do, and considering the price seems like a very solid buy. Having said that, I've never used one on set, and would want to defer to someone who has and can give you some real world feedback.

 

[Constantine Tyrintzis]

Hello , the Zwivel is way far than an ET system.
I either suggest you get a unic hheld system like Mantis, or have a look at the Gangster one of my last products. Getting just a couple of angle bracks and rods want make a good hheld system.
the Gangster is a complete solution with dovetail and stage 38mm Carbon fiber tubes,
angle adjustable for any shoulder angle, back tail for mounting the red drive and bat low for better COG and a nice comfortable shoulder pad. And its so rigid you can stand on it
Best wishes for the new year.

 

[Peter Hodgins]

What is the smallest tripod/head that will support fully loaded RED ONE with no accidents?

 

[Curran Giddens]

What is the smallest tripod/head that will support fully loaded RED ONE with no accidents?

I wouldn't go any smaller than an O'Connor 1030HD.

http://www.ocon.com/products/fluid-heads/1030hd0.html

 

[Ghandi El-Chamaa]

Hello , the Zwivel is way far than an ET system.
I either suggest you get a unic hheld system like Mantis, or have a look at the Gangster one of my last products. Getting just a couple of angle bracks and rods want make a good hheld system.
the Gangster is a complete solution with dovetail and stage 38mm Carbon fiber tubes,
angle adjustable for any shoulder angle, back tail for mounting the red drive and bat low for better COG and a nice comfortable shoulder pad. And its so rigid you can stand on it
Best wishes for the new year.

The gangster looks like an interesting piece of kit - would love to see a clip you've shot with it and maybe a video of you shooting that clip so we can see how it all works.

 

[Ghandi El-Chamaa]

What is the smallest tripod/head that will support fully loaded RED ONE with no accidents?

If you're talking price as well as size then go for a used tripod as they age well - FVESCO are doing some great deals. I'm not able to take advantage as they don't ship to the UK so if you're in the US you might as well - I'm still bitter about it.:violin:

 

[Constantine Tyrintzis]

Hello Ghandi. THE GANGSTER is just an ordinary shoulder mount and works same way than any shoulder mounts out there. You connect the camera to the plate and slide it on the stage, find COG , adjust handle angle, the only thing is different is that you can adjust the angle for the shoulder pad to fit the angle of your shoulder, and it has some extra bracks at the back for battert plates or the red cradle with red drive and bat.
Also its the most rigid structure at the market, fully upgradable to the GODFATHER, and THE MACHINE, OR the future ACROBAT. but at this stage its just a shoulder mount.
You are maybe talking about the other rigs that have panning rotations and roll axis and gimbal and stuff? This one doesnt.
I will make some videos at the end of january when I demonstrate all 3 of them.
Full carbon fiber rods 19mm and tubes 38mm.
Thanks for your interest
Constantine

 

[Harva Raj]

What is the smallest tripod/head that will support fully loaded RED ONE with no accidents?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/119314-REG/Cartoni_APRO_APRO_ActionPro_Aluminum_Tripod.html

able to withstand 12 lbs of weight. price is affordable.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/119314-REG/Cartoni_APRO_APRO_ActionPro_Aluminum_Tripod.html

able to withstand 12 lbs of weight. price is affordable.

It will be able to hold the R1 and maybe a battery. Otherwise, won't cut it, not even close. You would want as a minimum, meaning you will run with stripped down RED, a head that can support 25lbs. I feel to be prepared for all shooting situations you should be able to support 50lbs+. But I would never recommend a head that can only support 12lbs for RED or any other camera in its class.

Technically, of course you'd be right in that it can hold the RED body (10lbs).

 

[jimhare]

What is the smallest tripod/head that will support fully loaded RED ONE with no accidents?

I used a Manfrotto 526 for a while. Holds up to 35 pounds.

Worked well even fully loaded. I now use an OConnor 1030HDS, which is far superior, but for the money, the Manfrotto was great at the time.

 

[Ghandi El-Chamaa]

Having a real issue deciding between the MB28 and MB20 II, any help on this front would be great. I know the MB20 II but I have no idea of the real advantages of the MB28 other than it's ability to cater for larger lenses. Is it lighter, has anyone used it to actually comment or is it too new?

 

[Tim Naylor]

As an operator, weight, balance and simplicity are priorities. Red is an ergonomic tragedy compared to film or ENG cameras for hand held. It rides high and is front heavy. To compensate, I use a shoulder pad (to keep things low) and a hand held rig that attaches to the front rods. If money were no issue, I'd get Blue handles or fully kitted Moose Bars with extensions. I tried the Mantis and for my tastes, I find it too high up. I also like the minimal flex with rod attached handles. Also, with ET's 15mm mini bracket, you can ditch the baseplate / dovetail and attach handles to your mini rods for a real lightweight rig for those hand held all day gigs.

For baseplate, I'd go for the ET over Zacuto. The problem with Zacuto parts is the knobs do not ratchet which means they often get in the way when you attach several things to your rods. AC's hate em. For EVF holder, ET or SIM video. The Sim Video system is worth checking out as they got an EVF, handle, battery plate system that is well designed. They also have a baseplate that has both studio and mini rod brackets built into it.

Another technique I employ to balance the camera better on my shoulder is use an 18" rod on the bottom and hang your battery plate at the end. This gives a bit more leverage to take weight off the front (your arms). For MB, you may want to consider an Arri Clip On LM5. I love clip ons for the weight savings, simplicity and light seal. A Clip On with the ET 15mm bracket and no baseplate/dovetail makes for a stripped down hand held hot rod.

I currently use the Zacuto EVF mount and quite like it since it's simple and light. My AC's hate it. They prefer the ET EVF, which I like a lot but often run into issues in getting it far forward enough for hand held as I try to get the weight towards the back.

For support, if you can afford Atlas, take a good look at an O'Connor 2060.

For Drives, I personally stay away from the RED drive as much as possible as I don't trust hard drives as much as flash. Everything crashes it's just a matter of when. If you can afford it, Red's large flash drive is worth looking into. I've had some unfortunate red drive failures and vowed never to use them unless there's no other option (super long takes, remote location w/ no download station, etc). I'm sure other people have had trouble free experiences, but it only takes one....I'd purchase more 16 or 32 gig cards instead.

For Focus get a Preston if you can afford it or the new Arri Wireless (cost less and works great). And then get an FF4 - nothing comes close.

You have to ask what are you putting it together for? If it's to rent out, then get what DP's expect (Arri, ET, O'Connor, ETC). If not, you have a few more options.

 

[Mitch Gross]

Ghandi, if you'd like I would be happy to consult in detail as to a quality camera package. We have helped dozens if not hundreds of RED owners complete their kits worldwide. Feel free to PM me in the new year.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

For Drives, I personally stay away from the RED drive as much as possible as I don't trust hard drives as much as flash. Everything crashes it's just a matter of when. If you can afford it, Red's large flash drive is worth looking into. I've had some unfortunate red drive failures and vowed never to use them unless there's no other option (super long takes, remote location w/ no download station, etc). I'm sure other people have had trouble free experiences, but it only takes one....I'd purchase more 16 or 32 gig cards instead.

Drives with ET shockmounts = less problems. Good data management practices, i.e. always using drive AC power to a UPS style battery backup system and trying to avoid static, especially in the winter all go a long way to avoiding problems with drives. Done many, many shoots with RED drives. To me, the most reliable media to date has been the 8GB CF cards from RED. Those just always seem to work, although they are limited in terms of formats that you can use. 16GB cards I have run into some issues transferring them which have been documented by a few others, so perhaps not as bulletproof as the 8GB cards. My point is that I have seen issues on both sides but they tend to be isolated situations. RED RAM is probably ideal as that means solid state and all formats as well as long record times. But the price is still on the high end a bit.

No doubt this is all moving towards solid state, and as the technology gets more widespread, the prices will come down. The new cameras will rely on solid state recording. So, in general I would agree that if you are starting to build a kit now, and don't need long record times, the CF cards might be your best option. Just remember that with the 16GB card readers, you need to keep them cool, you need to use the best readers out there, and you have to make sure your cables are in good condition. Garbled frames, even a couple are unacceptable. If the camera is writing the files correctly to the cF card, then they have to make it to post in pristine condition. Might want to look at one of the checksum software tools to help catch problems.

 

[Eric Ulbrich]

For Filters I would suggest either an 80B or 1/4 B filter. Also, if you plan on getting the 5.65 x 5.65 filters for the MB-20 also get the 4x5 P sized step down trays. Its kind of an expense but you will feel tons better knowing that your 4x5 filters are not floating in the matte box.

Go with the ET base plate.

I don't really agree with the 19mm setup. Its extra weight and bulk that I don't feel is necessary. Especially as the cameras get smaller and we are able to fit them in tighter and tighter places, 15mm works just fine. 15mm is more flexible and will mount more accessories without having you pulling your hair out. At the very least I would suggest 19mm top rods and 15mm bottom rods if your super sold on the 19 mil setup.

If you choose to buy a 2060 HD head, make sure you request it to be film tuned. Trust me, I was so glad that someone told me to do this. It makes the counter balance sooo much nicer.

Go with the Mantis system for sure.

I will have to say that I have played with the gearnex and I will be honest. Im not impressed. Its cheap yes, but Ive never had one that I had issues with the pan gearing. Ive played with 3-4 of them now and every single time Im constantly fighting the gearing, on one of them I actually felt like I was grinding the gears on each other. Its a cool concept but one that ultimately I think does not work. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Jackson Yeung]

ET breakout box, because those mini adapters are terrible.

 

[Ghandi El-Chamaa]

As an operator, weight, balance and simplicity are priorities. Red is an ergonomic tragedy compared to film or ENG cameras for hand held. It rides high and is front heavy. To compensate, I use a shoulder pad (to keep things low) and a hand held rig that attaches to the front rods. If money were no issue, I'd get Blue handles or fully kitted Moose Bars with extensions. I tried the Mantis and for my tastes, I find it too high up. I also like the minimal flex with rod attached handles. Also, with ET's 15mm mini bracket, you can ditch the baseplate / dovetail and attach handles to your mini rods for a real lightweight rig for those hand held all day gigs.

Firstly, thanks for the feedback! From what you and others have said I think I will provide the option for 15mm support for shoots that require a simpler and lighter set up. A definite is the ET15mm mini bracket.

I'll definitely give the RB Moose bars a look in to compare to the Mantis.

For baseplate, I'd go for the ET over Zacuto. The problem with Zacuto parts is the knobs do not ratchet which means they often get in the way when you attach several things to your rods. AC's hate em. For EVF holder, ET or SIM video. The Sim Video system is worth checking out as they got an EVF, handle, battery plate system that is well designed. They also have a baseplate that has both studio and mini rod brackets built into it.

I was pretty set on the ET base plate anyway - any issues with the hybrid or would you just go for the seperate 19mm/15mm adaptors?

I've bought the Zacuto EVF mount - I find it's the most versatile but the knobs don't ratchet probably being the only issue. They should though. And a lifetime warranty which is always reassuring.

Another technique I employ to balance the camera better on my shoulder is use an 18" rod on the bottom and hang your battery plate at the end. This gives a bit more leverage to take weight off the front (your arms). For MB, you may want to consider an Arri Clip On LM5. I love clip ons for the weight savings, simplicity and light seal. A Clip On with the ET 15mm bracket and no baseplate/dovetail makes for a stripped down hand held hot rod.

I'm on the verge of buying the MMB-1 I've heard a lot of good things and just used the older LMB which was great and apparently now inferior.

I currently use the Zacuto EVF mount and quite like it since it's simple and light. My AC's hate it. They prefer the ET EVF, which I like a lot but often run into issues in getting it far forward enough for hand held as I try to get the weight towards the back.

I think I've made the right choice in terms of the Zacuto EVF mount - I really can't warrant spending close to £1000 on a EVF mount when there's a perfectly good one available for £300... It just doesn't make any sense, I'm now in a position to buy those moose bars with that saving.

For support, if you can afford Atlas, take a good look at an O'Connor 2060.

I have and they're both great - I'll have to test them side by side. The Atlas 30 is in between the OC 2575 and the OC 2060HD in terms of how much it can handle and of the same quality/standard.

For Drives, I personally stay away from the RED drive as much as possible as I don't trust hard drives as much as flash. Everything crashes it's just a matter of when. If you can afford it, Red's large flash drive is worth looking into. I've had some unfortunate red drive failures and vowed never to use them unless there's no other option (super long takes, remote location w/ no download station, etc). I'm sure other people have had trouble free experiences, but it only takes one....I'd purchase more 16 or 32 gig cards instead.

I'm really in two minds about the drives - as soon as the 64gb cards are available they're going to become obsolete. The practice of using smaller media too I think is better 'damage control'. As you say it only takes one problem and you're set back the price of a 4 pack of 16gb cards. If only the Red Ram was cheaper again that's vastly overpriced in comparison to other ssd drives of that size. When you put it into perspective it's a quarter of the price of the camera.

For Focus get a Preston if you can afford it or the new Arri Wireless (cost less and works great). And then get an FF4 - nothing comes close.

I'm looking into the New Arri system, have you used the bartech - any issues major differences, other than price?

You have to ask what are you putting it together for? If it's to rent out, then get what DP's expect (Arri, ET, O'Connor, ETC). If not, you have a few more options.

It's a combination of both and why I started this thread, just wanted some idea of no-go areas. Also though I wanted to get an idea of what AC's would like (Ratchet knobs) and appreciate in a camera package other than the obvious. Example Steve mentioned the 4" and 6" rods which I hadn't thought of.