Building a MacPro to grade R3d files with Resolve Lite

[M Most]

If Antonio spends the going rate of $800+ to put 32GB RAM in that system and another $500+ to put in a GTX570 or similar video card, he's probably spending too much on that old system. ...

Well, if one is considering spending $1200 to upgrade a computer, plus additional money for things like monitoring and storage, perhaps one should also consider spending $1000 for the "real" version of the software that one is buying all of this hardware to run....

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Well, if one is considering spending $1200 to upgrade a computer, plus additional money for things like monitoring and storage, perhaps one should also consider spending $1000 for the "real" version of the software that one is buying all of this hardware to run....

That'd be money well spent, anyway. And he could add a 2nd gpu...

 

[Antonio Ribeiro]

That is indeed a hacked version of the GTX570 card. I guess I would ask them for clarification as to whether or not it will work in your Mac Pro. Where the EFI ROM comes from and all that. It says you need a Mac Pro 2008 or later, according to your specs, you don't have that.

Hi Jeff,

I have checked my specs and I have a Mac Pro 3,1, not 2,1. In the spec details of the card, I think they mention it works with 3,1.

I have also found this page online about how to upgrade and include the card in the approved list of cards using Terminal:

http://www.tejbabra.com/2012/07/24/updating-my-macpro-to-a-nvidia-gtx570/

Great to know what your thoughts are on this.

Thanks
A

 

[Antonio Ribeiro]

Well, if one is considering spending $1200 to upgrade a computer, plus additional money for things like monitoring and storage, perhaps one should also consider spending $1000 for the "real" version of the software that one is buying all of this hardware to run....

Hey M and Gunleik,

I think I will stay where I am for now, buy the GTX570 and then make a transition at some point in the future to a meaner machine. Things get outdated very quickly these days and if I don't go down the Resolve route for this particular job, I will just have to do it the Speedgrade route. And even though the machine is old, I believe with this graphics card it should become much faster, even if I am not taking full advantage of the card's full speed.

A

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Hi Jeff,

I have checked my specs and I have a Mac Pro 3,1, not 2,1. In the spec details of the card, I think they mention it works with 3,1.

Interesting that it's a 3,1 and your RAM is running at 667MHz with dual 3GHz quad-core CPUs... Is all the RAM Apple/ factory installed? It's possible that you have the incorrect (lower speed) RAM installed, or you have a an "odd Mac", which sometimes appear outside the USA distribution where they will spec differing CPUs or RAM. Which CPUs do you have installed? A proper Mac Pro 3,1 configuration runs its RAM at 800MHz.

Even with the upgraded GPU, RAM, etc.. you won't be able to run Resolve at 1080p and 10bit color. You will have to drop back to 8bit color or work in lower resolutions. You need a Mac Pro 4,1 with 1066MHz RAM to have enough memory bandwidth for playback of 1080p @ 10bit. Just one other thing to bring up.

I have also found this page online about how to upgrade and include the card in the approved list of cards using Terminal:

http://www.tejbabra.com/2012/07/24/updating-my-macpro-to-a-nvidia-gtx570/

Great to know what your thoughts are on this.

I just glanced at it, but looks like they have all the bases covered. You don't have to use terminal to edit the text files. I just mention that because the whole terminal thing and unix command line put a lot of people out of their comfort zone.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Hey M and Gunleik,

I think I will stay where I am for now, buy the GTX570 and then make a transition at some point in the future to a meaner machine. Things get outdated very quickly these days and if I don't go down the Resolve route for this particular job, I will just have to do it the Speedgrade route. And even though the machine is old, I believe with this graphics card it should become much faster, even if I am not taking full advantage of the card's full speed.

A

It really won't be *much* faster. The GPU will help, sure, but you have several bottlenecks in that old hardware, starting with the RAM, that will limit you. Doesn't matter if you can drive the GPU at full speed or not.

 

[Jon MIchael Puntervold]

Maybe you can find a used Mac Pro 5.1? If you manage to get a cheap 8-core, you can replace the CPU's with 2x6 3.33 Ghz CPU's and you'll get a machine that is about twice as fast as the Hackingtosh setup you mention, for about the same costs...

 

[Antonio Ribeiro]

Interesting that it's a 3,1 and your RAM is running at 667MHz with dual 3GHz quad-core CPUs... Is all the RAM Apple/ factory installed? It's possible that you have the incorrect (lower speed) RAM installed, or you have a an "odd Mac", which sometimes appear outside the USA distribution where they will spec differing CPUs or RAM. Which CPUs do you have installed? A proper Mac Pro 3,1 configuration runs its RAM at 800MHz.

Even with the upgraded GPU, RAM, etc.. you won't be able to run Resolve at 1080p and 10bit color. You will have to drop back to 8bit color or work in lower resolutions. You need a Mac Pro 4,1 with 1066MHz RAM to have enough memory bandwidth for playback of 1080p @ 10bit. Just one other thing to bring up.




I just glanced at it, but looks like they have all the bases covered. You don't have to use terminal to edit the text files. I just mention that because the whole terminal thing and unix command line put a lot of people out of their comfort zone.

Hey Jeff,

Here are the full specs:

Model Name: Mac Pro
Model Identifier: MacPro3,1
Processor Name: Quad-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 3 GHz
Number of Processors: 2
Total Number of Cores: 8
L2 Cache (per Processor): 12 MB
Memory: 12 GB
Bus Speed: 1.6 GHz
Boot ROM Version: MP31.006C.B05
SMC Version (system): 1.25f4
Serial Number (system): CK8090UJXYL
Hardware UUID: D67B7350-099E-548D-89BD-30EA143D1D7E

What you make of that?

Glad I don't have to use terminal for the card...

 

[Antonio Ribeiro]

The other thing that happened, and this may explain the 2,1/3,1 issue, is I had the mother board replaced a few months ago.

 

[Antonio Ribeiro]

Found this for sale:

Specifications:
2.4ghz x 8 ( 2.4ghz intel Xeon E5620 (Westmere) 8 core 64 bit very powerful processor)
10 GB RAM
2000 GB massive hard drive with 7200 rpm high speed
Graphics: ATI Radeon HD 5770 with 1 GB of GDDR5 memory capable of supporting three 30-inch displays with a resolution of 2560x1600 in either dual display or mirrored mode
Built in wifi, bluetooth, dvd drive, firewire, video outs, audio in and out etc.
Model identification no: MC561LL/A

Has it got the potential to be maxed out?

Thanks
A

 

[Jon MIchael Puntervold]

Yes!

You'll get a pair of X5680's for 1600 USD, you just need some cooling paste and a 3mm hex key (the longest you can find, as the screws are about 6cm down the heatsink). Btw: Make sure that you get genuine production CPU's, some ebay sellers from Hong Kong sell ES (engineering samples).

But you'll also need new ram, after the new CPU's are installed, the memory speed are boosted to 1333mhz!

Go for either 48GB or 96GB as six sticks will utilise tri-channel and gain you some 5% extra performance...

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

OK, Antonio, I think I see what's going on here. We'd know for sure if I we knew the actual model # of the CPUs in your current system.

To check, open the terminal app and at the command prompt type:

sysctl -n machdep.cpu.brand_string

Your system is claiming to be a Mac Pro 3,1, but you're running RAM at 667MHz, which is what the Mac Pro 2,1 operated at. If your motherboard was replaced recently, it's possible, or actually almost definite, that they replaced with a Mac Pro 3,1 board. And that's why your system shows that. So if we could decipher the CPUs while we're at it, we'll know more about what you can or can't do with this system. The Mac Pro 2,1 used Xeon 5300 series "Clovertown" CPUs. Mac Pro 3,1 used Xeon 5400 series "Harpertown" CPUs. Both are LGA-771 packaged CPUs and you can install 5300 series chips into a motherboard that runs the 5400 series. So it's entirely possible that you had a Mac Pro 2,1 and had a motherboard replaced with a 3,1 model, but are still running the old CPUs and RAM, hence the 667MHz speed.

If for some reason they upgraded your CPUs as well to 5400 series, then you could buy faster 800MHz RAM. If the CPUs were upgraded to 5400 series, you will also be able to utilize PCIe 2.0 mode on the two X16 slots in your system. If it's a 3,1 motherboard with Xeon 53xx chips, then those slots will only operate at PCIe v1.1.


Additionally, that Mac Pro 5,1 you found would be an excellent upgrade as it is, or you can go further and swap out the CPUs like Jon is saying. More RAM, once again Jon has it right - 48 or 96 GB are the two best options there. 48GB in that system will be cheaper than 32GB in your current system too!

The 5770 is a nice card, but not great for Premiere or Resolve. Swap it out with the GTX570. You can also consider a GTX680 at this point. The GTX580 is actually the best fit for a system of the level of the Mac 5,1, but it draws too much power unless you underclock it or use a separate power supply.

You will get better GPU performance in Resolve if you can run a dedicated GUI card like a GT120 or something that only takes up one slot and doesn't need to use the PCI power cables. If you have a slot to spare.

 

[Antonio Ribeiro]

Hi Jeff,

Would love to check the info but I'm now at home away from the studio (11.45pm here in London). I will check first thing in the morning and let you know, I'm pretty sure the CPUs haven't been changed. I think I am going for the MacPro I found and will check it out tomorrow. This is a seller I found on Gumtree, so what I should probably do is run a good check of the machine before I buy it, but it appears to be a genuine seller. If the machine is up to scratch, it would provide me with a great path for upgrade. I've already have the GTX570 arriving on Tuesday.

Jon,

Thanks for the recommendations. It sounds straight forward but the cooling paste bit is freaking me out a bit. Do you spread it like butter? ;-)

 

[Ron Lagerlof]

Hi Jeff, sent you a PM earlier in the week with some details about a system I'm building. If you have a chance to look at it I'd appreciate it. In the meantime, here's another system that I'm planning to present to my client to build for the same purpose:

iMac, 3.4 GHz quad core i7, 32 GB ram, 3TB fusion drive
Magma EB3T 3 slot PCIe Thunderbolt expansion chassis (BTW - I have the M-Logic chassis and keep getting the message that the RR card is only running on 4 lanes and needs 8, but it does seem to be working well)
Red Rocket (one or two?)
Black Magic Ultra Studio 4K
NVidia Quadro 4000 (or should this be the GTX 570/580?)
AVID Artist Color
Apple Cinema Display (connected to CC suite over DL KVM extender from output of video card)
Adobe CS6 Production Suite & Davinci Resolve 9

Am I missing anything? Will this work or should I just go the high-end HP or BOXX route?

Thanks
Ron

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

@Antonio - I'm also guessing the CPUs (and RAM) have not been changed. But do the check to see. Take a look at the other system. If the price is good and the system is all there and working, it may be a good way to go. It's a much more realistic system for running Resolve. Make sure both CPUs are there -- it says 8 cores, so they should be. Same with both memory boards that hold the RAM. Those are expensive parts to buy separate. You have to be careful buying used Mac Pro systems sometimes. There are a lot of people out there claiming that their single CPU (4 or 6 core) is actually an 8 or 12 core because that's how many threads it can execute. Just be aware of that.

@Ron - I'll check for the PM, it may have got lost in the shuffle. PM is usually a crap-shoot for getting in touch with me. As for what you have listed here, the first big issue right off is the Quadro 4000 (or other GPU). You can't run a GPU card like this, even just for CUDA acceleration, in a Thunderbolt expander, it just doesn't work.

As for the Rocket 4-lane error, that's pretty common and what typically happens when it's installed in a 4-lane slot or over a Thunderbolt connection. I didn't think it did it with the M-Logic chassis, but I have not used the M-Logic. I would email them about it to see what they say. I've seen Rockets do this on occasion too and sometimes it needs the BIOS re-flashed or other settings cleared.

 

[Ron Lagerlof]

Thanks, Jeff. I'll resend the PM. Looking forward to your advice.
Ron

 

[Jon MIchael Puntervold]

It sounds straight forward but the cooling paste bit is freaking me out a bit. Do you spread it like butter? ;-)

Yes, I used one tube and split it over the two CPU's. Almost like butter. It's not a precise science, but do it with care and cover the entire CPU and it should be good. Of course you must clean off the old paste on the heat sinks first, a microfibre cloth is a good piece of equipment.

 

[Antonio Ribeiro]

Yes, I used one tube and split it over the two CPU's. Almost like butter. It's not a precise science, but do it with care and cover the entire CPU and it should be good. Of course you must clean off the old paste on the heat sinks first, a microfibre cloth is a good piece of equipment.

Hi Jon, that's great and it sounds straight forward enough for someone like me.

Jeff and Jon,

Quick question, does the Mac I found (which I will be viewing this afternoon) work with the ARECA (ARC-1880X) 6GB/s SAS Raid controller card? This is quite major for me, as I really want to avoid spending huge amounts on a new Raid card.

Thanks,

Antonio

 

[Jon MIchael Puntervold]

I'm not the right person to answer your raid question, but I would consider searching e-bay for a Mac Pro RAID Card (Early 2009). It's very well integrated with the rest of the product (hardware and OS).

 

[Antonio Ribeiro]

OK, Antonio, I think I see what's going on here. We'd know for sure if I we knew the actual model # of the CPUs in your current system.

To check, open the terminal app and at the command prompt type:

sysctl -n machdep.cpu.brand_string

Your system is claiming to be a Mac Pro 3,1, but you're running RAM at 667MHz, which is what the Mac Pro 2,1 operated at. If your motherboard was replaced recently, it's possible, or actually almost definite, that they replaced with a Mac Pro 3,1 board. And that's why your system shows that. So if we could decipher the CPUs while we're at it, we'll know more about what you can or can't do with this system. The Mac Pro 2,1 used Xeon 5300 series "Clovertown" CPUs. Mac Pro 3,1 used Xeon 5400 series "Harpertown" CPUs. Both are LGA-771 packaged CPUs and you can install 5300 series chips into a motherboard that runs the 5400 series. So it's entirely possible that you had a Mac Pro 2,1 and had a motherboard replaced with a 3,1 model, but are still running the old CPUs and RAM, hence the 667MHz speed.

If for some reason they upgraded your CPUs as well to 5400 series, then you could buy faster 800MHz RAM. If the CPUs were upgraded to 5400 series, you will also be able to utilize PCIe 2.0 mode on the two X16 slots in your system. If it's a 3,1 motherboard with Xeon 53xx chips, then those slots will only operate at PCIe v1.1.


Additionally, that Mac Pro 5,1 you found would be an excellent upgrade as it is, or you can go further and swap out the CPUs like Jon is saying. More RAM, once again Jon has it right - 48 or 96 GB are the two best options there. 48GB in that system will be cheaper than 32GB in your current system too!

The 5770 is a nice card, but not great for Premiere or Resolve. Swap it out with the GTX570. You can also consider a GTX680 at this point. The GTX580 is actually the best fit for a system of the level of the Mac 5,1, but it draws too much power unless you underclock it or use a separate power supply.

You will get better GPU performance in Resolve if you can run a dedicated GUI card like a GT120 or something that only takes up one slot and doesn't need to use the PCI power cables. If you have a slot to spare.

Hi Jeff,

Mystery of mysteries: After inserting the command line you gave me on Terminal it comes up with the following reply: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU X5472 @ 3.00GHz

It appears this mean they have been changed, yes?

Also, in terms of the other MacPro 5,1, can I still use the Multibridge Pro 2 with it?

Sorry guys, I apologise in advance for the number of questions and really appreciate your time in responding to this.