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Build a PC Windows (config & specs) ?

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David Rymer

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Hello,

I plan to buy a Scarlet Dragon and I wanna know if the windows pc that I'm building will be enough to work with : Premiere CS6/CC | Davinci Resolve 10 | RedCine X | After Effect | AutoDesk Smoke & will be able to treat/grade/edit higher fps files (especially for slow motion shots) + real-time playback & fast export :

------------------------------
- Intel Xeon E5-2660 V2 (2,2 GHz) - 10 cores

- ASRock X79 Extreme 11

- GTX Titan Z, 12 Go (x1) OR GTX TITAN Black 6Go (x2)

- 32Gb RAM (4x8Go - Corsaire Vengeance Pro Series)

- hard drives : Seagate Cheetak 15,000Rpm 6Gbits/s - 450go (x2) (so 900Go)

- LaCie 2Big Thunderbolt 2 - 6To RAID (https://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?id=10624) "dedicated for 4K Workflows"
I've read on the forum that the RAID 0 system is very important, this is mandatory/recommended? Or I should buy more Cheetah internal hard drives with enough space and save money on this?
I plan to shoot a lot of projetcs in 4k with high fps + 5k at 24fps : music videos, short-films etc :
Should I buy this RAID system and use it as storage?
Do you think this RAID system will provide me a real-time playback at 5K if I let my footages in it, and on 3 screens/monitors at the same time?
And stupid question but do you know if the hard drives comes with this RAID system or if I have to buy them separately?

- Display/Monitor : Viewsonic VX2770, 27" LED (x3) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu5XDihwZZM) + X-Rite i1 Display (for calibration)

- Power : Corsair AX1200i, 1200W
------------------------------

* Should I go for 8 cores with more GHz?
* More RAM?
* (x1) TITAN Z with 12Go? (x2) Titan Black with 6Go?
* With this RAID system or with more internal fast hard drives?


Thank's & sorry for my poor english,


David
 
If you stick with certain parts lists, primarily gigabyte or asus, it's very simple to install both Win and Mac on the same system, but if you wait a month or two the X99 series will be out as well.
 
Thank's Shiblon for your answer, I'll check the X99 series beuying my PC. But for 4k/5k workflow, do you think the configuration I made is good?
 
Yeah, the X99 platform would be worth waiting for at this point. Unless you just absolutely have to have something right now. By the end of the year we'll see 8-core i7 CPUs too.

David Rymer said:
- Intel Xeon E5-2660 V2 (2,2 GHz) - 10 cores

- ASRock X79 Extreme 11

- GTX Titan Z, 12 Go (x1) OR GTX TITAN Black 6Go (x2)

- 32Gb RAM (4x8Go - Corsaire Vengeance Pro Series)

- hard drives : Seagate Cheetak 15,000Rpm 6Gbits/s - 450go (x2) (so 900Go)

- LaCie 2Big Thunderbolt 2 - 6To RAID

- Display/Monitor : Viewsonic VX2770, 27" LED (x3) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu5XDihwZZM) + X-Rite i1 Display (for calibration)

- Power : Corsair AX1200i, 1200W
------------------------------

* Should I go for 8 cores with more GHz?
* More RAM?
* (x1) TITAN Z with 12Go? (x2) Titan Black with 6Go?
* With this RAID system or with more internal fast hard drives?
Click to expand...


You should definitely go for more speed. Try to keep yourself at 3GHz+. The upcoming 8-core i7 will price out about $1K for the 3.3GHz model and should over clock to over 4GHz if you want to try something like that. Or if you keep with the Xeon, you can get the 3GHz 8-core for less money than the 10-core you have spec'd out. 3.3GHz 8-core is a big price jump though and puts it in the same price bracket as the 3GHz 10-core or 2.7GHz 12-core. New Xeon CPUs shipping next month too. But those will have to go with the new associated chipset or wait for X99 to use on a desktop class board.

X99 and E5-v3 Xeon both platforms bring us support for DDR4 memory. That's great, but it's going to be scarce and expensive for the next 6 months or so.

Go with two Titan Black 6GB. The Titan Z crams dual 6GB Titan GPUs onto one card, but you pay a huge premium and actually take a hit in clock speed. You're effectively paying $1K to free up a double-width slot in your computer.

Unless you're running your hard drives in a RAID, I would recommend SSD's. The 15Krpm 450GB drives are actually not that fast. Several of the newer 3TB 7200rpm HDD's actually beat them on sequential transfers. The 15Krpm drives have the advantage of faster seek times and are great for tasks like database use or other non-linear data access. They're still no match for SSDs in this department.

3 x 27" LED displays... Hmmm.... If that floats your boat. I'm running dual 30" with a 55" Samsung 4K on the wall above. Prior to that I was running dual 30" with a 50" plasma for several years. No right or wrong answer here, it's just whatever you feel the most comfortable with. The I1 probe is good for calibration. There are better options and software bundles out there, but it can get really expensive in a hurry.

More RAM. I would recommend 64GB with 8 or more cores. Even 96GB or 128GB if you start looking at dual CPUs with 16 cores or more. I have 64GB in my nMP systems and it's not enough. I have 128GB in my 16-core Z820 and it's about right most of the time. I have 256GB in my 20-core grading/ finishing system and it's overkill.

I don't know what to say about the LaCie RAID. I'm personally not a fan of any of their products. So far I'm very happy with the Promise Pegasus2 and the Areca Thunderbolt 2 RAIDs.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Yeah, the X99 platform would be worth waiting for at this point. Unless you just absolutely have to have something right now. By the end of the year we'll see 8-core i7 CPUs too.




You should definitely go for more speed. Try to keep yourself at 3GHz+. The upcoming 8-core i7 will price out about $1K for the 3.3GHz model and should over clock to over 4GHz if you want to try something like that. Or if you keep with the Xeon, you can get the 3GHz 8-core for less money than the 10-core you have spec'd out. 3.3GHz 8-core is a big price jump though and puts it in the same price bracket as the 3GHz 10-core or 2.7GHz 12-core. New Xeon CPUs shipping next month too. But those will have to go with the new associated chipset or wait for X99 to use on a desktop class board.

X99 and E5-v3 Xeon both platforms bring us support for DDR4 memory. That's great, but it's going to be scarce and expensive for the next 6 months or so.

Go with two Titan Black 6GB. The Titan Z crams dual 6GB Titan GPUs onto one card, but you pay a huge premium and actually take a hit in clock speed. You're effectively paying $1K to free up a double-width slot in your computer.

Unless you're running your hard drives in a RAID, I would recommend SSD's. The 15Krpm 450GB drives are actually not that fast. Several of the newer 3TB 7200rpm HDD's actually beat them on sequential transfers. The 15Krpm drives have the advantage of faster seek times and are great for tasks like database use or other non-linear data access. They're still no match for SSDs in this department.

3 x 27" LED displays... Hmmm.... If that floats your boat. I'm running dual 30" with a 55" Samsung 4K on the wall above. Prior to that I was running dual 30" with a 50" plasma for several years. No right or wrong answer here, it's just whatever you feel the most comfortable with. The I1 probe is good for calibration. There are better options and software bundles out there, but it can get really expensive in a hurry.

More RAM. I would recommend 64GB with 8 or more cores. Even 96GB or 128GB if you start looking at dual CPUs with 16 cores or more. I have 64GB in my nMP systems and it's not enough. I have 128GB in my 16-core Z820 and it's about right most of the time. I have 256GB in my 20-core grading/ finishing system and it's overkill.

I don't know what to say about the LaCie RAID. I'm personally not a fan of any of their products. So far I'm very happy with the Promise Pegasus2 and the Areca Thunderbolt 2 RAIDs.
Click to expand...
Jeff, will the 8 core 1-7s retain threading for each core?
 
The threading will be the same whether an I7 or Xeon is in play. That is application based and not specific to the CPU's. The 8 Cores will be 16 threads and more than enough for a majority of workflows especially since the clock speed will be higher. I would definitely not suggest that raid unit. USB3 will be slow compared to an internal raid or SAS external. The X99 boards wont have TB2 as of launch. Intel is still holding off on opening the licensing up on TB for no reason other than favored partners.
 
I think the real issue here is that most X99 boards won't have TB2 out of the gate, or perhaps at all, even though there is direct support incorporated into the X99 platform. Seems that the Korean and Taiwanese motherboard industry doesn't want to play Intel's TB licensing game. Intel is not holding off on the licensing, they are just unwilling to license it as part of X99 and without separate terms. Favored partners is an apt description. Those who have already been shipping TB enabled motherboards are pretty much grandfathered into the licensing program. Others have to jump through hoops to get there. Totally stupid of Intel to handle it this way, IMO.

ASUS is a preferred partner and approved for TB2 licensing on X99. The OEM sample version of their X99 Deluxe motherboard has TB2. I'm not sure how that wouldn't translate to the final launch product. HP and Dell will be shipping X99 desktops with TB2. MSI, Gigabyte, EVGA and several others have yet to join the party. Many of the gaming-oriented motherboards probably won't get TB2 and their manufacturers don't see the need. The customer base doesn't see the need either.
 
That definitely looks like the TB header port in the manual they use for the cards. This one will be interesting to watch for. I am sure there is going be some angry partners here soon at Intel in the East if Asus is the only one licensed for this.
 
Goofy licensing schemes never work out. This is what killed Firewire 800 in the PC market and one of the main reasons Firewire didn't last as an interface. It looks like the industry is facing the same sort of licensing shenanigans for the 10Gbps USB 3.1. This just does not bode well for end users. Anyone can sign on to be a Thunderbolt partner with Intel. The reason many don't want to is because it's a whole other license and channel partner agreement on the scale of adopting their chipset components for constructing the motherboard in the first place. And yet there is no real new hardware here, X99 has the Thunderbolt host integrated as I understand it. On top of that, they need separate licensure for the production of any Thunderbolt devices, cables, etc.. Cable components are only manufactured and supplied by Intel. Optical cable licenses, or the rights to procure and use the optical TB encoder/decoders, have only been granted to Tsumitomo, Corning and 3M.

The licensing of Thunderbolt peripherals is cheap. It's actually cheaper than getting the official USB logo approval. Unfortunately, the approval process and hardware review is strict. Intel really clamped down after the first entries to the TB peripheral market were very lackluster, didn't meet power consumption guidelines, etc.. They're taking a draconian approach to all of this. They're trying to avoid the tidal wave of crap peripherals as we have seen in the USB market and always plague new USB versions. I guess that hasn't been an issue with Thunderbolt 2, but there are almost no Thunderbolt 2 devices (or new Thunderbolt devices) due to these controls.

IMO, they need to relax and treat it as USB has been treated. The market will sort it out. The consumers won't buy and support crap peripherals, generally speaking anyway... Or at least the market will eventually get it sorted and typically only offer stuff that usually works. Kinda like USB 3 -- or the first year or so, none of it worked right...
 
Jeff, a question only slightly off-topic... but I suppose it applies to both mobile Work Stations (my interest) and towers as well.

That is, if you are limited, would you rather have more RAM above a certain number, or a faster HDD... like an SSD over a spinning drive? I'm mainly interested in how these two essentials affect apps like Redcine or Adobe CC (Premiere).
 
GPU acceleration applications use considerable amount of ram because of the way it works. You want enough ram to support the amount of CPU threads. Greater than 1080 frames also require more ram. With 8+ core CPU's you really want 64GB of ram. That should be first. The drive setup needs to handle the media. Normally that is atleast a 2 drive raid 0 with mechanical drives or an SSD when r3d is the media. Beyond that the budget decides along with what archive process is in place. Premiere and AE have alarge ram profile especially for 4K media. The GPU acceleration performance will suffer significantly if there is not enough ram available for the CPU and GPU to work ideally.

BTW Jeff the word I have been getting from an engineer in TW is that Intel East is not really wanting to license 3rd party controllers for TB right now. The exact words told me were stonewalled and political. Likely there is more going on here than just control for compatibility. They did ask why we wanted to but left it at that.
 
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Elsie, Eric pretty well sums it up. It's difficult to make a decision of what I would want to have more as that can change with different applications or usage scenarios. Faster HDD/SSD for the OS and applications only really matters for starting up the system and loading your apps. More RAM helps almost everywhere. You want your working storage, HDD RAIDs for most of us here, to be fast enough to handle your data I/O needs, but don't get too carried away. Desktop workstations typically don't need $30K RAID setups that can push 3GB/s. I've seen people buy or build such things and then scratch their heads when nothing really works any faster or better. Most of this stuff all works in a balanced way. If you increase the specs or quantity of one component, the others in the system may not be able to keep up in order for you to take advantage.

Eric, you're right about the TB and 3rd party controllers. And that's not just Intel East, that's just the way it is. There are currently no options for third party controllers, encoders, etc.. No licenses, etc.. You want any of that, it must be purchased direct from Intel. You want to be able to purchase it, you need to apply for licensing and have your design and usage approved by Intel. Intel has claimed they were going to open up and bring in some more manufacturers or providers for these components. That has yet to happen and anyone looking to become one of those manufacturing partners has so far met with nothing but the stone face of denial.
 
Thanks Eric and thanks Jeff.

RAM it is, then.
 
Big thank's Eric, Jeff for all your answers and messages.

My last problems will be which internal SSD's (brands, how many, capacity, rpm) & which RAID system (brand, capacity etc), with my limited budget, I have to make the right/best choice.

Here's another new configuration I made with your comments and messages :

* Intel I7 5960X - 3,00Ghz - 8 cores (release soon)
* ASRock X99 Extreme 6 OR ASRock FATAL1TY X99 Killer (release soon) : with a thunderbolt port I've read? Usefull for RAID Thunderbolt 2 cable/system so?
* 64Go RAM DDR4 Corsair (4x16Go - 2,133MHz CL15 ECCREGISTERED DR X4)
* GTX TITAN Black 6Go (x2)
* SSD : Still looking for good internal SSD's for applications and system (any affordable brand or model to suggest, how many sdd's I should buy, 1TB, 3TB)?
* RAID : As you're distrustful/suspicious about that LaCie RAID system, can you tell me a list of RAID Thunderbolt 2 good system (with different price range) and compatible with Windows?

Thank's again.
 
What monitors did you end up going for? and what raid ssd and hardrives did you get?
 
David,

For internal SSDs, I would suggest either:
1. Samsung 850 Pro 512GB SSD
2. Intel 730 480GB SSD
3. SanDisk Extreme Pro 480GB SSD

All of them work great in RAID, and are considered the top of the line for 2.5" SATA3 based drives, as of Sep 2014.

On another note:
I think X99-based boards have been announced with two m.2 slots. If you can find an M.2 PCIe x4 SSD, it might be a good option, but I don't think you can put those in RAID (yet).
 
Hey Eric,

Thank's a lot Eric for your answer, I will go for the samsung drives ! And thank you for the note about the X99 boards, I will check my options !
 
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