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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Build 20 Animorphic

You can also shoot with the anamorphics in 4K 16:9 mode, which gives you an insane wide 1:3.5 picture, in which you can pan+scan to correct evt. framing and/or stabilizing.

You loose the de-squeezed preview, but it is REALLY, REALLY wide :bath:
 
Subscribing.

I just shot some tests with Ana's, so I'm sure I'll need some of this info for figuring out the post workflow. I'm sure it will get interesting as soon as I hit Color ...

But for now, all it sounds like I need to do is to change out the width to 2x
 
Stills-

Stills-

Ok, so I tried just exporting some stills, and they come out unsqueezed. (I realize that if I render out clips I just hit the 2x option, but pressing the TIFF frame button does not unsqueeze them.

So just to confirm-
- The stuff I shot in ANA mode is: 2816 x 2304.
I need to unsqueeze the frame to 5632 x 2304.
Resulting in a 2.44 ratio.

-The stuff I shot in 4k 16:9 is: 4096 x 2304.
I need to unsqueeze the frame to 8192 x 2304.
Resulting in a 3.55 ratio.

Correct?
 
Ryan E. Walters said:
Subscribing.

I just shot some tests with Ana's, so I'm sure I'll need some of this info for figuring out the post workflow. I'm sure it will get interesting as soon as I hit Color ...
Click to expand...

Ryan, I found that for short form projects ie music videos, commercials, independent short films etc, that rendering via ProResHQ, adding an _H.mov to the end of all those ProResHQ files via batch automating software, editing, then sending an EDL to Color works perfect with the anamorphic workflow. Then all you have to do is do the desqueeze in the geometry room for one clip and apply to all. Pretty simple. I do this all the time on our anamorphic shoots with my Lomos.

Cheers!
 
mikeburton said:
Ryan, I found that for short form projects ie music videos, commercials, independent short films etc, that rendering via ProResHQ, adding an _H.mov to the end of all those ProResHQ files via batch automating software, editing, then sending an EDL to Color works perfect with the anamorphic workflow. Then all you have to do is do the desqueeze in the geometry room for one clip and apply to all. Pretty simple. I do this all the time on our anamorphic shoots with my Lomos.

Cheers!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the idea- I have some questions for you-

- What dimensions are your pro res files? Color only supports up to 2048 for the width- so are you rendering out ProRes files that are 2048 x 840?

- When you go into Color to grade, do you then have access to the R3D's using your method, or are you stuck with the ProResHQ?
 
Ryan E. Walters said:
Thanks for the idea- I have some questions for you-

- What dimensions are your pro res files? Color only supports up to 2048 for the width- so are you rendering out ProRes files that are 2048 x 840?

- When you go into Color to grade, do you then have access to the R3D's using your method, or are you stuck with the ProResHQ?
Click to expand...

I actually make my ProResHQ files 720p usually. This keeps the editorial process quick without any hiccups. Knowing that it is only going to be offline anyhow cause I will reconform to my final finishing resolution like 2K or 1080p later in Color.

This is my workflow,

1. RedRushes batch export all my clips to 720p ProResHQ files.

2. Batch Rename all the ProRes Files with an _H.mov at the end of the files name with A Better Finder Renamer. This tricks color into thinking your editorial files are proxies. NOTE: you must rename the ProRes files with the _H at the end or the conform won't work.

3. Edit, export EDL from FCP.

4. Open EDL in Color and point color to the original RED R3D Files source directory. Tell Color which resolution and frame rate I would like to work in up to 2K and presto, your edit is conformed into Color with access to the RED Tab and 12 bits of data information.

Color doesn't care about your editorial resolution so why not have more realtime performance? 2k is just too much overhead and honestly 720p looks fantastic at a half res debayer. Well worth the time you save compared to transcoding 2K.
 
mikeburton said:
I actually make my ProResHQ files 720p usually. This keeps the editorial process quick without any hiccups. Knowing that it is only going to be offline anyhow cause I will reconform to my final finishing resolution like 2K or 1080p later in Color.

This is my workflow,

1. RedRushes batch export all my clips to 720p ProResHQ files.

2. Batch Rename all the ProRes Files with an _H.mov at the end of the files name with A Better Finder Renamer. This tricks color into thinking your editorial files are proxies. NOTE: you must rename the ProRes files with the _H at the end or the conform won't work.

3. Edit, export EDL from FCP.

4. Open EDL in Color and point color to the original RED R3D Files source directory. Tell Color which resolution and frame rate I would like to work in up to 2K and presto, your edit is conformed into Color with access to the RED Tab and 12 bits of data information.

Color doesn't care about your editorial resolution so why not have more realtime performance? 2k is just too much overhead and honestly 720p looks fantastic at a half res debayer. Well worth the time you save compared to transcoding 2K.
Click to expand...

Brilliant. Thanks for that. I'm testing it out the workflow now. So far so good. :)
 
I've worked on a few anamorphic jobs with red and lomo's, never did figure out how the resolution pans out after the desqueeze, as we were always going to 720p QTs for an offline, but man, did that footage shine. Gorgeous stuff, great match with the red if you're looking for texture and character in your footage, enjoy the flares, etc. Would post some stills, but it's not my footage to post. All the same, as a person who had previously just used sphericals on everything, while framing and masking for 2.40, there's no denying that the anamorphics do something very special to faces and landscapes...very cinematic.

The only downside to the lomo's were the mechanics and ergonomics, but well worth the sacrifice in ease-of-use.

One note on shooting Ana mode w/ build 16 over 18 or 20: as one mentioned, in B16, the camera is still recording full 16:9, so you end up with lots of room on either end, which I imagine could come in very handy in certain situations, though your transcode render times will increase a fair amount to end up with the proper aspect ratio as you'll need to apply a crop as well to cut off the ends. Not a problem for some with beefy machines, but substantial if you're using a laptop or need superfast dailies in correct aspect ratio. Otherwise, viewing for the sake of viewing is a cinch, doable in QuickTime off proxies, just change the visual settings of a clip to half the vertical resolution, uncheck "preserve aspect ratio," and voilà...a sexy, almost-4.0:1 superwidescreen shot with some real character.

Happy shooting...
 
DOF

DOF

Until the full frame censors come out you won't get true anamorphic DOF.

It looks kind of like 16mm DOF but the ANA mode does work like a charm.

Can't wait for FF!!!
 
Kip Kubin said:
Until the full frame censors come out you won't get true anamorphic DOF.

It looks kind of like 16mm DOF but the ANA mode does work like a charm.

Can't wait for FF!!!
Click to expand...

Not really true -- it would be closer to normal 35mm depth of field, but not 16mm depth of field.

In spherical 35mm framed for cropping to 2.40, you'd use a 20mm lens to get the same view as a 40mm anamorphic lens due to the 2X horizontal squeeze of the lens. With a 2X anamorphic lens on a RED camera, because the sensor more like 3-perf 35mm in height instead of 4-perf, you'd use something more like a 28mm anamorphic lens to get the same view as a 40mm anamorphic lens on a 4-perf 35mm camera.

So there's more depth of field, but it's just closer to being like 35mm spherical, and even then, it's still a bit more shallow in focus. Not even close to being like 16mm.
 
Thanks all for your help. Using the RedRushes to create the "proxies" did help. But I'm still working out the best workflow with FCP and Color- I want to get the highest resolution possible, but it is a little tricky since Color makes a lot of choices for you when it come to image size. I opted to go with the Super 35 setting (2048 x 1556) and grade it in that, then send back to FCP where I un-squished the image.

Anyway, here are the shots:

Build 20, in 4k ANA Mode:
http://www.ryanewalters.com/downloads/4k-Ana-2kPreview.jpg

Build 20, in 4k 16:9 (a 3.55:1 image)
http://www.ryanewalters.com/downloads/4k-16x9-Ana-2kPreview.jpg

Both of these where shot with a 35mm lens.

Here is a short little flare test I did using the 35mm / 50mm / 75mm lenses:
QuickTime (Small): http://www.ryanewalters.com/page5/page30/samples.html
Vimeo 1080p: http://www.vimeo.com/5482514 (Will be ready for viewing in about 30 minutes form now.)
 
Last edited:
David Mullen ASC said:
Not really true -- it would be closer to normal 35mm depth of field, but not 16mm depth of field.

In spherical 35mm framed for cropping to 2.40, you'd use a 20mm lens to get the same view as a 40mm anamorphic lens due to the 2X horizontal squeeze of the lens. With a 2X anamorphic lens on a RED camera, because the sensor more like 3-perf 35mm in height instead of 4-perf, you'd use something more like a 28mm anamorphic lens to get the same view as a 40mm anamorphic lens on a 4-perf 35mm camera.

So there's more depth of field, but it's just closer to being like 35mm spherical, and even then, it's still a bit more shallow in focus. Not even close to being like 16mm.
Click to expand...

Thanks for trying to help me figure this out, David. I'm still confused though. Are you saying that you technically are using a higher percentage of RED's sensor when shooting ANA mode than you would if you cropped RED's 16x9 image to 2.40?
 
Yep, great glass, and a great deal! :)

Hunter has done a good job at getting them up and running- after buying them he had the completely serviced and collimated.
 
Brandon said:
Thanks for trying to help me figure this out, David. I'm still confused though. Are you saying that you technically are using a higher percentage of RED's sensor when shooting ANA mode than you would if you cropped RED's 16x9 image to 2.40?
Click to expand...

No, the question wasn't about resolution, it was about depth of field, which is determined by focal length. Because of the 2X horizontal squeeze, you have to think of anamorphic lenses as acting like wider-angle lenses because they see twice as much horizontally as that focal length would if it were spherical. So a 40mm anamorphic lens "behaves" like a 20mm lens cropped vertically to 2.40, but it still has the depth of field of a 40mm lens.

But in terms of resolution, shooting 4K spherical and cropping to 2.40 vertically still gives you a bit more resolution than shooting with a 2X anamorphic lens and cropping horizontally.

For a 2.40 image, using spherical lenses, it would be something like 4096 x 1707 (7MP) versus 2765 x 2304 (6.4MP) for cropping the sides of a 2X anamorphic image back down to 2.40.

Now to be precise, since in 4-perf 35mm, anamorphic uses a 22mm wide negative (and so does Red in 4K) and Super-35 uses a 24mm wide negative, the conversion is not quite 2X.

It would be more like these approx. focal lengths in terms of matching FOV:
22mm lens (Super-35 vertically cropped to 2.40)
28mm lens (2X anamorphic on Red One sensor with sides cropped to 2.40)
40mm lens (2X anamorphic on 35mm)
 
Has the build 18 bug that caused a 4 x 3 frame guide to display on external monitors while shooting in anamorphic mode been resolved in build 20?
 
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