brandon thomas
Well-known member
uploading looks to camera!
ability to display timecode burn in on screen on the hdsdi or preview output
ability to display timecode burn in on screen on the hdsdi or preview output
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Build 17 features...
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Steve Freebairn
Well-known member
I'd love to see the stoplights and/or histogram on the HD-SDI out.
* Full support for 16GB CF cards and RED-RAM drive
Is there a hidden statement in this line? What isn't supported now that will be
* Full support for 16GB CF cards and RED-RAM drive
Is there a hidden statement in this line? What isn't supported now that will be
pirata
New member
PIXEL TO PIXEL viewing
PIXEL TO PIXEL viewing
A great update would be the ability to get a preview of the real 4k image, pixel to pixel at native RAW resolution. This would make a massive difference with this camera for high end work or cinema release work. More than any of the features here discussed.
RED cameras have a very difficult and temperamental back focus issue, it is so obvious.. How many cameras I've handled the back focus is feet off.. And trying to get it right is near impossible. Long lenses are ok and then wide angles are off, inexplicable... At the moment there is no way to verify whether the back focus of the camera is dead on and the 4k image recorded is truly sharp unless exporting a 4k tiff and open in RED cine. This is too slow. The HD/SDI outputs aren't really true SDI outputs and as they are a scaled down preview of the 4K RAW an image might look sharp through the preview HD/SDI when it might and probably will be soft...
There should be a feature that would allow us to see the native 4k image and with the wheel/ joystick at the back of the camera we should be able to move over the image to selected areas of interest to confirm sharpness... That would be a feature worth money for. I would even pay for such upgrade...
That and a whole new PL mount would be great. A mount that doesn't unsettle and shifts its angle when you unscrew it, even a little bit.. Have you ever tried to keep the back focus right as you tighten the screws?... It is impossible!
PIXEL TO PIXEL viewing
A great update would be the ability to get a preview of the real 4k image, pixel to pixel at native RAW resolution. This would make a massive difference with this camera for high end work or cinema release work. More than any of the features here discussed.
RED cameras have a very difficult and temperamental back focus issue, it is so obvious.. How many cameras I've handled the back focus is feet off.. And trying to get it right is near impossible. Long lenses are ok and then wide angles are off, inexplicable... At the moment there is no way to verify whether the back focus of the camera is dead on and the 4k image recorded is truly sharp unless exporting a 4k tiff and open in RED cine. This is too slow. The HD/SDI outputs aren't really true SDI outputs and as they are a scaled down preview of the 4K RAW an image might look sharp through the preview HD/SDI when it might and probably will be soft...
There should be a feature that would allow us to see the native 4k image and with the wheel/ joystick at the back of the camera we should be able to move over the image to selected areas of interest to confirm sharpness... That would be a feature worth money for. I would even pay for such upgrade...
That and a whole new PL mount would be great. A mount that doesn't unsettle and shifts its angle when you unscrew it, even a little bit.. Have you ever tried to keep the back focus right as you tighten the screws?... It is impossible!
Mark Pugh
Well-known member
I just did a calculation - image area would increase by about 24%.
about 8.7 M pixels against 7 M Pixels for 4K 2.4:1
Wow.
Charles Angus
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Long lenses have more depth of focus (depth of field behind the lens) and are therefore much more tolerant of back focus issues. Easily explicable, I would say.
M_Sanderson
Well-known member
sleep/low power/standby mode
sleep/low power/standby mode
Everyone must have got swap packs!
sleep/low power/standby mode
Just before Build 16 more people were asking for this!!!!
Everyone must have got swap packs!
Peter Majtan
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One thing (that should be easy) - when in the timelapse mode, could the display show the actual number of frames captured instead of the timecode? It will be nice to know after babysitting the redhead for couple of hours how many frames I have "in the pocket". I know I could calculate it theoretically, but direct camera feedback would be nice...
I hope I am not asking too much...
Thanks for all the effort!
Cheers
Peter
I hope I am not asking too much...
Thanks for all the effort!
Cheers
Peter
Birns and Sawyer
REDuser Sponsor
Was thinking the same thing. Check back focus on an 18mm or so, at least 3 times the minimum focus and out, and you should be on good shape if you have a big enough monitor to see.
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- #109
Conrad Hunziker
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One thing (that should be easy) - when in the timelapse mode, could the display show the actual number of frames captured instead of the timecode? It will be nice to know after babysitting the redhead for couple of hours how many frames I have "in the pocket". I know I could calculate it theoretically, but direct camera feedback would be nice...
Peter
You could do that now- Just change the displayed TC to edgecode. Note the starting TC (which will be 1:00:00:00 on a new reel) and count up.
Peter Majtan
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But You still need to count - why the camera can't do it for You? It should be a simply fix...
- Banned
- #111
Motion Control Interface Request
Motion Control Interface Request
Hi Jim,
I need the ability to continually control the RED’s shutter speed and the timing of the shutter (ramping the camera speed on the fly) with Mark Roberts Motion Control’s Modula Rig and Flair software, for repeat passes.
I don’t know if the new Genlock will be a way to control the shutter. As far as I understand this is a video signal that will only make the RED synchronize to standard, locked speed video rates.
Managing Director at Mark Roberts Motion Control, Assaff Rawner (assaff@mrmoco.com) says many want to use RED with their equipment, and is frustrated nothing is happening to RED’s interface in this regard. :mellow:
Like for this MoCo guy:
I don’t know the details needed here, so I included Mr. Rawner’s email – hoping you will please also prioritize these features among all the other things we are so happy you make happen, Jim :wink:
Thanks from soon Happy Simen
Motion Control Interface Request
Hi Jim,
I need the ability to continually control the RED’s shutter speed and the timing of the shutter (ramping the camera speed on the fly) with Mark Roberts Motion Control’s Modula Rig and Flair software, for repeat passes.
I don’t know if the new Genlock will be a way to control the shutter. As far as I understand this is a video signal that will only make the RED synchronize to standard, locked speed video rates.
Managing Director at Mark Roberts Motion Control, Assaff Rawner (assaff@mrmoco.com) says many want to use RED with their equipment, and is frustrated nothing is happening to RED’s interface in this regard. :mellow:
Like for this MoCo guy:
, RED is no option.
I don’t know the details needed here, so I included Mr. Rawner’s email – hoping you will please also prioritize these features among all the other things we are so happy you make happen, Jim :wink:
Thanks from soon Happy Simen
Stuart English
Red Team
Moco
Moco
Its not that you can't control the shutter speed / timing, tell the camera to record the next frame, get the camera to tell you it has recorded the next frame / start or stop a record / start a variable speed frame ramp. It does all those.
Its the fact that you can't give the camera a random fps pulse to track, and get a real shutter open / closed pulse back like you can on a film camera. That's just a difference between electronic and mechanical cameras.
Moco
Its not that you can't control the shutter speed / timing, tell the camera to record the next frame, get the camera to tell you it has recorded the next frame / start or stop a record / start a variable speed frame ramp. It does all those.
Its the fact that you can't give the camera a random fps pulse to track, and get a real shutter open / closed pulse back like you can on a film camera. That's just a difference between electronic and mechanical cameras.
- Moderator
- #113
Jeff Kilgroe
Well-known member
Stuart, at the risk of opening a can of worms, couldn't such pulse information be accepted by the camera and theoretically simulated or generated and sent back? Perhaps using the timecode data connector or the onboard USB at some point?
Stuart English
Red Team
Pulses
Pulses
The issue is latency Jeff. On a film camera you are interfacing to a motor, but in this aspect (remote control) the RED-ONE is a computer.
Therefore a tricky problem to solve. The alternative is to use the functions the camera does provide to you.
Pulses
The issue is latency Jeff. On a film camera you are interfacing to a motor, but in this aspect (remote control) the RED-ONE is a computer.
Therefore a tricky problem to solve. The alternative is to use the functions the camera does provide to you.
Cail Young
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What we really need is this at all framerates.
Then mocon can work under and overcranked.
- Banned
- #116
Shutter open / close output pulse
Shutter open / close output pulse
1) As long as the camera software can define when the camera should start and stop using the feed from the chip to make a frame - there must be a way to sneak in some code lines that output a shutter open / closed pulse like you can on a film camera.
2) As a constant analog signal stream is fed from the chip there should theoretically be easier than on a mechanical film camera to externally control (what part of this feed should define) the start and stop of a frame.
Even with a very fast moving MoCo rig you should be able to more accurately (than on a mechanical film camera) time the shutter to open and close at the exact same places in a multi pass shot. When externally controlling both the start and stop of a frame the different passes can be shot with different speed/ramping, and even the smear from the motion blur will look exactly the same on the corresponding frames.
Advanced MoCo will be another area where visual fx will excel when using the digital RED cameras – and not like now, were RED can’t be used.
Hope this will inspire some development, even if it touches deep into the logic of the camera software.
Simen
Shutter open / close output pulse
1) As long as the camera software can define when the camera should start and stop using the feed from the chip to make a frame - there must be a way to sneak in some code lines that output a shutter open / closed pulse like you can on a film camera.
2) As a constant analog signal stream is fed from the chip there should theoretically be easier than on a mechanical film camera to externally control (what part of this feed should define) the start and stop of a frame.
Even with a very fast moving MoCo rig you should be able to more accurately (than on a mechanical film camera) time the shutter to open and close at the exact same places in a multi pass shot. When externally controlling both the start and stop of a frame the different passes can be shot with different speed/ramping, and even the smear from the motion blur will look exactly the same on the corresponding frames.
Advanced MoCo will be another area where visual fx will excel when using the digital RED cameras – and not like now, were RED can’t be used.
Hope this will inspire some development, even if it touches deep into the logic of the camera software.
Simen
- Banned
- #117
Shutter Synchronisation for Flash
Shutter Synchronisation for Flash
…and while we are talking shutter and synchronization…
A) When we need a strobe flash to help lighting fast moving objects in close ups (and other situations), it would be nice with a pulse from the camera that fires the flash when the digital “shutter” is fully open. Preferably able to adjustable when the pulse is given, or at least before the “shutter” closes, so we get the motion blur trails after the moving objects.
B) I guess this “shutter” pulse could also be forwarded to other equipment that will delay externally controlled flashes from firing until the RED’s “shutter” is fully open – to prevent RED recordings I have seen, where only some upper or lower parts of the frames are lit by the flashes, like in this video: http://web.mac.com/fini1/iWeb/Site 135/4k Red Camera.html
Here I understand there might be a problem tapping the chip exactly when a flash is fired 1/10 000 nd of a second :umm:
Simen
Shutter Synchronisation for Flash
…and while we are talking shutter and synchronization…
A) When we need a strobe flash to help lighting fast moving objects in close ups (and other situations), it would be nice with a pulse from the camera that fires the flash when the digital “shutter” is fully open. Preferably able to adjustable when the pulse is given, or at least before the “shutter” closes, so we get the motion blur trails after the moving objects.
B) I guess this “shutter” pulse could also be forwarded to other equipment that will delay externally controlled flashes from firing until the RED’s “shutter” is fully open – to prevent RED recordings I have seen, where only some upper or lower parts of the frames are lit by the flashes, like in this video: http://web.mac.com/fini1/iWeb/Site 135/4k Red Camera.html
Here I understand there might be a problem tapping the chip exactly when a flash is fired 1/10 000 nd of a second :umm:
Simen
Hello Stuart,
This is Assaff Rawner. Just to clarify:
(A) the RED camera has the function to trigger the recording of a single frame but this cannot be used as it has been designed for low FPS speeds (per the data I was given by RED). It will not trigger successfully at say 25FPS or above (we are not even after varying the camera speed just the ability to synchronize the "exposure" of the chip to the rig. But if (B) below were working then this would not be needed anyway.
(B) the motion control rig doesn't need to know when RED "opens" the shutter and when it "closes" it again. The motion control only needs to know the shutter has opened (no matter whether at the start middle or end of exposure) and for the timing of this to be constant at a constant speed.
Surely the software/hardware already in the camera knows when exposure is occurring and this signal could just be put on an output pin somewhere?
I don't believe that is a difference between film and digital cameras, as other cameras like the Phantom HD have a frame output.
Please help us make this work somehow.
regards
Assaff
This is Assaff Rawner. Just to clarify:
(A) the RED camera has the function to trigger the recording of a single frame but this cannot be used as it has been designed for low FPS speeds (per the data I was given by RED). It will not trigger successfully at say 25FPS or above (we are not even after varying the camera speed just the ability to synchronize the "exposure" of the chip to the rig. But if (B) below were working then this would not be needed anyway.
(B) the motion control rig doesn't need to know when RED "opens" the shutter and when it "closes" it again. The motion control only needs to know the shutter has opened (no matter whether at the start middle or end of exposure) and for the timing of this to be constant at a constant speed.
Surely the software/hardware already in the camera knows when exposure is occurring and this signal could just be put on an output pin somewhere?
I don't believe that is a difference between film and digital cameras, as other cameras like the Phantom HD have a frame output.
Please help us make this work somehow.
regards
Assaff
Stuart English
Red Team
MOCO at high frame rates / ramps
MOCO at high frame rates / ramps
Yes it does, but its confirmation of that is not available on an external pin.
We do understand what is being requested, and if we can do that in future we will.
MOCO at high frame rates / ramps
Yes it does, but its confirmation of that is not available on an external pin.
We do understand what is being requested, and if we can do that in future we will.
- Banned
- #120
RED's "MoCo features"
RED's "MoCo features"
Great, you will look into it.
Sorry, if I made things complicated here, but I don’t understand that all we need is a puls telling the MoCo rig when exposure is occurring. Is this not just the minimum requirement?
Don’t we need to control the camera speed (including ramping) and the shutter speed, Assaff?
I want to be able to do at least the same things with RED as with the regular film cameras.
What is the FULL list of features you would like to see from RED, Assaff – to make sure RED get all the features needed for MoCo, like the film cameras have?
S
RED's "MoCo features"
Great, you will look into it.
Sorry, if I made things complicated here, but I don’t understand that all we need is a puls telling the MoCo rig when exposure is occurring. Is this not just the minimum requirement?
Don’t we need to control the camera speed (including ramping) and the shutter speed, Assaff?
I want to be able to do at least the same things with RED as with the regular film cameras.
What is the FULL list of features you would like to see from RED, Assaff – to make sure RED get all the features needed for MoCo, like the film cameras have?
S