Build 16 Codec Error killer...

[Michael Stanmore]

If you were shooting anything prior to build 13 the tree would have come to life and eaten you...

 

[Adrian T.]

I'm glad that RED is addressing this CODEC error problem with such high priority and great effort. But being a software engineer myself I must say that I'm highly worried by this try-and-error approach. That's simply NOT the way to write reliable software!

I really hope that this is only an intermediate solution to the problem and that they're going back to the drawing board of scientific software design and theoretical proof of the algorithms in use. Yes, it's always possible to prove scientifically that algorithms work.

Keeping my fingers crossed...

 

[Paul Hazlett]

Hi,

Leo was kind enough to send me a couple of pics of the evil tree that keeps causing all the B16 trouble.

As you can see, the bastard was quite worried when he heard earlier today that the Build 16 Codec Error killer update was released.

Unfortunately, he managed to defeat the killer update yet again.

Let's show this bastard! Bring the new update that takes care of this last 1%.

That tree looks my uncle Murray.

 

[Jannard]

I'm glad that RED is addressing this CODEC error problem with such high priority and great effort. But being a software engineer myself I must say that I'm highly worried by this try-and-error approach. That's simply NOT the way to write reliable software!

I really hope that this is only an intermediate solution to the problem and that they're going back to the drawing board of scientific software design and theoretical proof of the algorithms in use. Yes, it's always possible to prove scientifically that algorithms work.

Keeping my fingers crossed...

hehe... trial and error. Big L., you are sorta right. If we had done this project the "traditional and correct way", we would have shipped our 1st cameras out Spring 2112... maybe.

Jim

 

[Ed Blythe]

Can't we just get Leo a new tree? Seems like that would save a lot of trouble...

 

[Dj Joofa]

If we had done this project the "traditional and correct way", we would have shipped our 1st cameras out Spring 2112... maybe.

No, IMHO, "traditional and correct way" does not always take longer. There is no agreed upon definition of what is "traditional and correct." I don't see any reason that with the specs the camera that Red has developed a more robust camera would have taken about 2112 to come out.

 

[Jannard]

No, IMHO, "traditional and correct way" does not always take longer. There is no agreed upon definition of what is "traditional and correct." I don't see any reason that with the specs the camera that Red has developed a more robust camera would have taken about 2112 to come out.

Try building one of these yourself in two years from scratch... with all due respect. You assume quite a bit in your statement.

I have a new Canon 1Ds MKIII and 1D MKIII. There have already been several firmware updates to fix major problems for each of them. Canon has an army of engineers.

Jim

 

[Dj Joofa]

Try building one of these yourself in two years from scratch... with all due respect. You assume quite a bit in your statement.

I'm sorry if my statement has been seen as inflammatory. I respect Red's innovation a lot. It is not just a question of an army of engineers. A small company such as Red can indeed take on a big company with the right focus, and more importantly passion and dedication, which the Red's team appears to have.

On the reality side. We have indeed built a camera and a very powerful system to go with it from scratch in less than 2 years that in overall complexity is no less than Red (if not more).

I am just giving my honest feedback, more so from the experience we gathered in building such systems, and I apologize if it has hurt anybody's feelings.

I want to see Red succeed and that is why I offer my experiences on this forum as I do not want Red to make the same mistakes that we and others before us also made.

A wise person learns from his/her experience, a wiser person learns from others' experiences.

 

[Jannard]

I'm sorry if my statement has been seen as inflammatory. I respect Red's innovation a lot. It is not just a question of an army of engineers. A small company such as Red can indeed take on a big company with the right focus, and more importantly passion and dedication, which the Red's team appears to have.

On the reality side. We have indeed built a camera and a very powerful system to go with it from scratch in less than 2 years that in overall complexity is no less than Red (if not more).

I am just giving my honest feedback, more so from the experience we gathered in building such systems, and I apologize if it has hurt anybody's feelings.

I want to see Red succeed and that is why I offer my experiences on this forum as I do not want Red to make the same mistakes that we and others before us also made.

A wise person learns from his/her experience, a wiser person learns from others' experiences.

Want to come give us a hand?

Jim

 

[Martin Preiss]

Want to come give us a hand?

Jim

I do!

 

[Häakon]

hehe... trial and error. Big L., you are sorta right. If we had done this project the "traditional and correct way", we would have shipped our 1st cameras out Spring 2112... maybe.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that this is completely accurate. RED is taking an (extremely) radical path to product development, but you don't have to look hard to see it has been worth it. Sure, their approach has kicked up some dust and ruffled some feathers along the way (RED has had to deal with their share of the frustration just as much as the customers), but look where we are at. Jim has said from day one that you don't have to pick up your cameras until they were "done;" it looks like that took them about 9-10 months to accomplish. Given the size of their team and the age of their company, that's rather remarkable I reckon. And in that time, many of us have still had a camera to play with, rough edges or not. We knew we would have to deal with some problems here and there but the bottom line is we've been making beautiful 4K images from a $20K camera and there just plain isn't any other camera that comes close.

I scrutinize RED a lot because a company of this caliber needs to be held to the highest standards and told straight up what needs to be worked on so that they can make the best camera possible. And maybe I've been a thorn in Jim's side at times, but guess what - all of the feedback on this website has helped them to test, tweak, and fix those problems faster than it could be possible any other way. The reason you won't see a 4K camera from the "other guys" until Spring 2012 is because no one else is willing to have an open product development cycle like RED. And by then, RED will be on their third generation chip which I'm sure will be another industry killer. I read so much flack about fanboy-this and overhype-that on other forums or mailing lists that seem to want to tear RED apart for being different, but however you want to slice it, they're the ones making it happen.

It sounds like the latest build has some nice stability improvements and I'm very much looking forward to the release candidate. Don't slow down this pace, RED... the pieces are coming together and it only gets more exciting to shoot with the camera every day.

 

[Josué Ignacio Saldaña]

A wise person learns from his/her experience, a wiser person learns from others' experiences.

However, there is a difference between self-gratifying "wisdom" (speaking from life experience and not to you personally) and the type of wisdom that has been in motion from RED in its truly noble cause. Even if "history" ever tries to prove otherwise, it is evident in this day and time that what RED is doing is for those who are alive and able... which is probably the reason why the hopes of many are lifted by RED and not by some probable super-duper camera out there... get the diff'?

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Well I have some good news!!!!

I was able to recreate my green screen shoot today.

Tungsten green screen. 4K, 16:9, 23.976fps, varispeed 30fps. Lights in frame etc.

With the old 16 build I got codec error literally within 2 seconds!

With build 3.1.6 and .8 NOTHING! It was ticking like clockwork no matter how much I tried to abuse it!!!

So that's a few % of the 99. Just wanted to throw that into the mix.

So it's off for a new green screen shoot for me hahahaha.

PS I have e-mailed Stuart the logs.


Fredrik Callinggard

 

[Jannard]

Well I have some good news!!!!

Fredrik Callinggard

I love good news! And I hope we can deliver a build that puts "codec error" to rest forever... in a few days.

Jim

 

[Josué Ignacio Saldaña]

but however you want to slice it, they're the ones making it happen.

While everyone else talks about:

"If it were me, I would..."
or
"I am in development of..."
or
"One day I'll show..."

Though it isn't correct to discredit anyone's "wisdom" for we don't know what they are capable of or how they are going to help shape the future... it isn't fair either to discredit a company for taking their own capital and broaden the entire standard to include those not able by the "traditional means." RED isn't just making some type of new "product," they are helping so many of us change the way we believe that things could be done... and that is dangerous in the eyes of some, because now their projected profit margins have been completely changed.

 

[Pawel Achtel]

hehe... trial and error. Big L., you are sorta right. If we had done this project the "traditional and correct way", we would have shipped our 1st cameras out Spring 2112... maybe.

Jim

Not necessarily, Jim. There are ways where producing reliable software is actually cheaper and faster, but this does not work for most software companies out there because it does not give them repeat revenue stream.

Here, it is different. The approach needed would be "bug prevention" instead of "bug detection" (a.k.a. testing). It may sound strange, but the most reliable software is actually not tested, it is only verified. The development process is focused on preventing bugs to start with and it is substantially different than what is commonly adapted in software industry.

Anyway, with 20+ years of experience, I'd be happy to assist as much as I can. PM me.

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

I love good news! And I hope we can deliver a build that puts "codec error" to rest forever... in a few days.

Jim

Well the real good news is this build. Codec errors aside, the images are amazing. I can't be more happy about the noise. I've never been so happy about noise before hahahahaha. It's sooooo beautiful.

I'm not saying that the camera has a high noise level, I'm saying that the noise level it has now is so film like that it doesn't matter. Now we can work with the noise, the very very little of it that the cam produces.

So thanx :gun:


Fredrik

 

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

I am so happy this camera actually reports "Codec error" at all, what if it just pretended everything was fine and you wind up finding out when it´s too late...

With this new bugfix I will upgrade my camera to build 16 at the next opportunity.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Try building one of these yourself in two years from scratch... with all due respect. You assume quite a bit in your statement.

I have a new Canon 1Ds MKIII and 1D MKIII. There have already been several firmware updates to fix major problems for each of them. Canon has an army of engineers.

Jim

It is great news on the Build 16 as I'm very near a shoot!


And Jim, please don't remind me of what I had to go true with my 1D III and the time (MONTHS) that tucked the Engineers at Canon to even admit of the Codec error which was causing AL SERVO Focus problems, which I sold out of desperation, but at list now my new 1Ds III is finally working well.


And yes any one that complains about the matter in which RED handles this codec errors, they must know nothing about how other BIGGER companies deal with this issues on Release builds.


Thanks again to the RED Team for the outstanding job that they continue to do!


ciao

 

[Pawel Achtel]

It is great news on the Build 16 as I'm very near a shoot!


And Jim, please don't remind me of what I had to go true with my 1D III and the time (MONTHS) that tucked the Engineers at Canon to even admit of the Codec error which was causing AL SERVO Focus problems, which I sold out of desperation, but at list now my new 1Ds III is finally working well.

And yes any one that complains about the matter in which RED handles this codec errors, they must know nothing about how other BIGGER companies deal with this issues on Release builds.

Thanks again to the RED Team for the outstanding job that they continue to do!

ciao

Yes, I fully agree. Red is much more pro-active and opened than any relevant company I know of.