Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

BMD URSA or Canon C300 for TVC ?

K

Katie. A

Well-known member
Joined
May 3, 2014
Messages
80
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Hi,
If you have to choose between BMD URSA or Canon C300 which one would you choose for TV Commercials? Why?
 
The C300

1) It exits

2) The Ursa even when available will probably only be useful in a painless way months after it becomes available.

Beyond that, ask again when the URSA is in use for a few months.
 
Hi Bob,
They have asked my opinion between these two cameras :-(.
 
Katie. A said:
Hi Bob,
They have asked my opinion between these two cameras :-(.
Click to expand...

Well that is silly.

The only sensible answer is the camera that can be used.

Before the Epic came out if you were asked Epic or Red One you must choose Red one.
 
Ursa makes no sense. I would literally choose every single camera available before the Ursa.
 
The c300 is a fine camera, however as someone who spends their life shooting and directing tvc's I wouldn't consider either of the cameras you're considering as all purpose options. The ursa is also just mythology at this point.

The three cameras I see routinely on tvc sets, and the ones least likely to cause a crew rebellion are:

Arri Alexa
Red Epic/Dragon
Sony F5/55
 
Domenic Barbero said:
Ursa makes no sense. I would literally choose every single camera available before the Ursa.
Click to expand...


LMFAO! I seriously don't know what was better this, or the "it exists" comment lmfao dying over here!
 
Brian Merlen said:
LMFAO! I seriously don't know what was better this, or the "it exists" comment lmfao dying over here!
Click to expand...

But seriously. The only use for the Ursa is...... well..... nothing. They should abort that project before they have no credibility left.
 
AMIRA :)
 
Hi Gunleik,
F55 is very expensive.
Most of the pro cameras record 23.976/24p but broadcasters accepts 50i. How do we go about sorting this issue? Do we need to shoot 24p and convert to 50i?
 
Katie. A said:
Hi Gunleik,
F55 is very expensive.
Most of the pro cameras record 23.976/24p but broadcasters accepts 50i. How do we go about sorting this issue? Do we need to shoot 24p and convert to 50i?
Click to expand...

Ummmm, if you are shooting tvc's for broadcast in PAL regions or broadcasters that want 50i shoot 25p and deliver 50i.

All cameras mentioned so far shoot 25p, (or 50i but you don't wanna shoot a tvc 50i), except perhaps the URSA, noone knows yet, it doesn't exist.
 
Katie. A said:
Hi Gunleik,
F55 is very expensive.
Most of the pro cameras record 23.976/24p but broadcasters accepts 50i. How do we go about sorting this issue? Do we need to shoot 24p and convert to 50i?
Click to expand...

No offense, but if you are shooting the spot... shouldn't you know this? And if you aren't, shouldn't the agency/producer/director ask the DP and/or editor?

The C300 shoots 50i and 25p, fwiw. 25p will give you the "film look" or you can shoot 24p, conform to 25p, then broadcast that, but I wouldn't consider it.

Having shot on all these cameras or very similar ones (F5, not F55, Epic, not Dragon, Alexa but not Amira) and have not used the URSA, of course), I think... they are all just fine! And all popular for ads, all good enough if used well. Haven't used the F55, but I think the only advantage it has over the C300 (based on my time with the F5) is higher framrates, no rolling shutter, and a bit more highlight detail, but I actually prefer the C300's image! The Epic/Alexa are nice, too, all of them are close enough with different strengths and weaknesses. Some ACs do not like the C300 ergonomically, but the image is fine.
 
Well for we know its the producer wondering here...We don't know what role the OP has in the production.. And just in case your a producer I am going to answer seriously (plus I could use some work lol).. Depending when you shoot you may not be able to score the black magic camera. They have a history of delays, and even when they ship the product its buggy and has issues. So I would avoid using any of their products, especially ones that don't exist yet and can be months or years behind schedule. They have lots of issues generally speaking and the canon is a far better system as far as reputation goes.

How long is the shoot? You can potentially rent vs buy and save money/get access to better gear. I think shooting 25p or 50i is a great plan cuz it will make the deliverable process easier to deal with since its Pal based. A Sony F5 can be rented probably for similar prices as the Canon C300. But an F3 would be even cheaper. Since 4k doesn't seem to be a priority you have many many camera choices you can go with.

But counting on a camera thats not shipping will def potentially bite you. I would focus more on things readily available, ones that you can find from many sources. I also have a Dragon available for rent should you want that and it should be at the rental house probably this coming week its in Irvine right now getting the upgrade. I can wrangle for any system though and have no brand preferences so feel free to hit me up if in need ever folks!~
 
Hi,
The Potential shoot will be around December. So its a planning and info gathering stage.
So far its good to know that shoot 25p and deliver 50i.
 
if you need to avoid transcoding (which can easily be done on set) you should go for renting an F5 or C300, F3, Alexa, or something along those lines. All widely used, all look fine. I understand how some productions can't be bothered with on set transcoding and want to shoot direct to prores... for the record you can always use an off board recorder on a Red and just not save a copy of the r3d files. i do that all the time actually for people who just want to shoot red but not deal with the red ecosystem of codecs/post


or keep the r3d files and the off board proxies so you can do an offline/online if needed is obviously the safer route. i mean the honest truth as a camera tech is i can run any of the systems anyway people need them ran, in the end they are tools and all work in similar ways, most provide at least some major similarities. sure red raw and arri raw don't have kelvin baked in like everyone else...and can do higher res...but there are lots of 4k cams on the market now....the high res thing is on most cameras coming out now...
 
Last edited:
Katie. A said:
Hi,
If you have to choose between BMD URSA or Canon C300 which one would you choose for TV Commercials? Why?
Click to expand...

Lots of good reasons to not consider the URSA have already been given. Lots of good reasons to consider more than the C300 have also been given.

To add to the reasons to not consider the URSA, even if it does ship on time and as promised, it is not designed for shooting commercials. It is designed for TV production. For TV production, there's much to like about a solid 2/3" sensor because there's much to love about the extremely wide and affordable zoom ranges of 2/3" sensor lenses. For example, the top-of-the-line 2/3" Fujinon "standard" zoom is T1.9 across more than an 11:1 zoom ratio, but has a full zoom ratio of 18:1 up to T2.9. The Fujinon 25-300 Cabrio is T3.5 across its 11:1 zoom ratio, falling to T3.9 at the long end. The latter costs 2x the former, and weighs 4x as much. And if you really want to go nuts, there's this 27:1 beauty that delivers T1.5 through most of its range. Outfit three cameras with those in a TV studio and you won't need to buy anything new for the whole run of the show.

TV commercials are a completely different animal than TV production. The creative idea you want to express lasts 30-60 seconds, not a whole season. Each commercial will likely be shot in a completely different environment, not on a fixed set. Commercials also have very different time constraints than TV production. Now, perhaps the question you meant to ask was about shooting TV Commercials locked inside a TV studio, in which case the design decisions (and compromises of the URSA) might make sense. But the fundamental question remains: is it the form factor of TV production that's driving the question, or the concept of commercial creativity that's driving the decision?

As other have said, it is a terrible idea to make any plans around Blackmagic's promises, which have consistently over-promised and under-delivered, especially when it comes to schedule. And anybody going into production should have weeks if not months of experience with the equipment in question. Professionals are paid to perform, not practice. It will take months to determine whether URSA has put Blackmagic back on the map or further into terra incognito. If they haven't shipped by the end of September, you can forget about doing anything meaningful by December.

If I were making a decision for a December timeframe, and if I wanted the 2/3" form factor, I'd be looking at the Panasonic Varicam HS, scheduled to ship in the fall. And if I were building around a larger sensor, I'd use the SCARLET as the baseline functionality, trading up to SCARLET DRAGON or EPIC DRAGON as budget allows. You might find other forums suggesting different baselines, but this is REDUSER, and most of us are here because we believe RED offers the best set of compromises to realize our creative and commercial goals.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top