Blurry playback monitor from Premiere CS6

[Michael McCaffrey]

When I import and just view (still or playback) .r3d files (even in FULL resolution playback) the video display on my LCD monitor is blurry. Looks like it was shot was a DSLR. Not sharp at all. I take the SAME file and go into Final Cut and the playback looks SHARP. Im working with raw (no filters) shots. Ive made sure the sequence settings match the video and so forth. Please tell me it gets better than this? Not too impressed with Adobe so far.

 

[Brad Allen]

Hi Michael - What you're seeing definitely isn't normal - provided your debayer settings are high enough, you're display should have it's resolution maxed out.

Are you talking about playback from the source monitor or the program monitor?

 

[Michael McCaffrey]

Hi Michael - What you're seeing definitely isn't normal - provided your debayer settings are high enough, you're display have it's resolution maxed out.

Are you talking about playback from the source monitor or the program monitor?

The output to the same monitor is sharp in FCP7 so it can't be the monitor. I have the NLE UI on one monitor and full-screen software based playback On the second HD monitor (1920x1080).

After googling this and looking around it seems a lot of people have experienced this but nobody has any answers, just speculation (interlacing, mismatched sequence settings, etc etc). I'll double check the debate ring (my iPhone will not let me spell deba yering. Tried 10 times!) in premiere but I don't think that's it.

I don't know if an nvidia cuda card will help with sharpness. It's a $700 gamble.

 

[Wil Renczes]

Click the wrench in the program monitor - there are two separate settings for playback resolution - one during playback, the other for paused. Make sure the paused resolution is set to full res.

 

[Michael McCaffrey]

Ok, here is the issue. Two screen captures of my 4K footage as I see it on my HD monitor (LCD) full screen at 1920x1080. FCP7's image blows Premiere out of the water. I can't edit with a fuzzy display. I hate that. Any suggestions? I checked debayering on my .R3D clips in premiere and it is at "high."

PREMIERE CS6 VIDEO DISPLAY (RAW .R3D File):
http://www.lmn.org/tmp/Premiere_CS6_Output.png

FCP7 VIDEO DISPLAY (.R3D in QT Wrapper):
http://www.lmn.org/tmp/FCP7_Output.png

 

[Tom Hamilton]

I'd say Will is probably right, make sure you're paused resolution is set to full, let us know.

 

[Michael McCaffrey]

I'd say Will is probably right, make sure you're paused resolution is set to full, let us know.

Of course. Been over that stuff many times. Playback resolution set to full, debayering on high, same .R3D file on the same monitor straight from camera no effects or filters but two different levels of sharpness. The only variable is the NLE.

 

[Brad Allen]

Of course. Been over that stuff many times. Playback resolution set to full, debayering on high, same .R3D file on the same monitor straight from camera no effects or filters but two different levels of sharpness. The only variable is the NLE.

Hi Michael,

Just to be sure, as what you are saying seems to be speaking past what others are suggesting - are you adjusting both your paused resolution and playback resolution? They are two independent settings. (Right click on the image in the monitor and you will see them both). You seem to be saying that you have done it, but then only mention setting your playback resolution.

Also, you seem to have misunderstood me before. I was never suggesting that your display was the issue - I was asking if you are previewing the footage in your source or program monitor (the two windows inside the UI of Premiere). Both the source monitor and the program monitor have independent settings for their debayer resolution (and again, both for paused and playback). If you are previewing footage from your source monitor, be sure that you have adjusted your debayering settings for the source monitor in particular and vice' versa.

If neither of the above does help you in anyway, perhaps you can help us by giving us more details. Which version of Premiere Pro are you running? How is your monitor linked to the computer? Which interface has been used? What are the specs of your system? Are you on Mac or PC? How have you enabled the monitor in Premiere Pro? Can you provide us with a step by step walkthrough of your process so far so we can attempt to recreate it on our end?

 

[Michael McCaffrey]

Hi Michael,

Just to be sure, as what you are saying seems to be speaking past what others are suggesting - are you adjusting both your paused resolution and playback resolution? They are two independent settings. (Right click on the image in the monitor and you will see them both). You seem to be saying that you have done it, but then only mention setting your playback resolution.

Also, you seem to have misunderstood me before. I was never suggesting that your display was the issue - I was asking if you are previewing the footage in your source or program monitor (the two windows inside the UI of Premiere). Both the source monitor and the program monitor have independent settings for their debayer resolution (and again, both for paused and playback). If you are previewing footage from your source monitor, be sure that you have adjusted your debayering settings for the source monitor in particular and vice' versa.

If neither of the above does help you in anyway, perhaps you can help us by giving us more details. Which version of Premiere Pro are you running? How is your monitor linked to the computer? Which interface has been used? What are the specs of your system? Are you on Mac or PC? How have you enabled the monitor in Premiere Pro? Can you provide us with a step by step walkthrough of your process so far so we can attempt to recreate it on our end?

Brad,

I thought the debayering settings are adjusted in the .R3D file's source settings. Where/how do you adjust debayering in Premiere for the source or program monitors?

Did some more testing and at first I thought I had the same problem with other footage in Premiere, but actually, other footage does in fact look sharp. I imported a 18mp still image into Premiere's 3K sequence and it looked great. Really sharp. I created an XDCAM EX HD sequence and imported some old XDCAM footage and it too looked sharp. I imported the same shot into FCP7 and toggled back and forth quickly looking at differences in the image and they were identical. So the real problem seem to be specifically with red footage. It DOES look softer in Premiere, HOWEVER, if I go into the .R3D source file and put sharpness to Maximum, then they appear to be identical. So that's good, but if I have a hundred .R3D files I dont want to have to change each individual clip to max sharpness. That'd take forever. Is there a better way?

The Red footage still appears to be soft over-all but that is another issue. Maybe my lens just really sucks? Its a 18-135mm f3.5-5.6 IS Canon lens.

 

[Brad Allen]

Hi Micheal,

All I am referring to regarding debayer settings is the resolution at which Premiere runs the debayer operation. To change this for your source monitor, load an image into your viewer > right click on the image and you will see options in that list for "playback quality" and "paused quality". The higher resolution debayer you choose, the sharper your image will be.

Regarding entering into the source settings and changing the debayer detail, this didn't make any difference in CS5.5 - but I think that was a bug. I haven't had a chance to check this in CS6. If you are wanting to change this across a group of clips, you should be able to select all of the clips > right click > source settings > change debayer detail > ok

Will check to confirm that this works when I get a chance - but am out working all day today

Oh and regarding the soft RED images - my guess is that you are probably noticing the strong OLPF that RED uses on their cams + the fact that no in-camera sharpening is done. This is intentional as it helps to alleviate aliasing problems and gives you the flexibility to sharpen things up in post to the correct level with more precision

 

[Johnny Friday]

Did you open up in RCX on full screen to COMPARE images there VS. Premier's program monitor? Sounds like you just have soft images....if you are getting clean & crisp images from other non red clips....and as everyone keeps suggesting...paused rez at full....I'd start at a compare to see if images are soft all together--wait, makes no sense---you said your R3d's are sharp in FCP? then just sounds like your rez settings are not correct...play with those a bit...for some reason in 5.5 i had to set BOTH paused and playback to full to get the OPPOSITE one working....in other words had full set in puased rez, but was fuzzy, then chose full in playback and scrubbed around a bit and then it kicked in.....

 

[Michael McCaffrey]

Hi Micheal,

All I am referring to regarding debayer settings is the resolution at which Premiere runs the debayer operation. To change this for your source monitor, load an image into your viewer > right click on the image and you will see options in that list for "playback quality" and "paused quality". The higher resolution debayer you choose, the sharper your image will be.

Regarding entering into the source settings and changing the debayer detail, this didn't make any difference in CS5.5 - but I think that was a bug. I haven't had a chance to check this in CS6. If you are wanting to change this across a group of clips, you should be able to select all of the clips > right click > source settings > change debayer detail > ok

Will check to confirm that this works when I get a chance - but am out working all day today

Oh and regarding the soft RED images - my guess is that you are probably noticing the strong OLPF that RED uses on their cams + the fact that no in-camera sharpening is done. This is intentional as it helps to alleviate aliasing problems and gives you the flexibility to sharpen things up in post to the correct level with more precision

Brad,

The OLPF is a possibility. I've messed around with the unsharpen mask in Premiere and that helps but still not impressed. Especially when I look at what others are getting and checking out their still frames and R3Ds. I'm getting nothing as sharp as those. What process do you use to sharpen your footage and to what degree (specific settings)?

 

[Brad Allen]

Hi Michael,

Regarding the process of sharpening, sharpening is typically the very last step I do before exporting - this means for me that it comes after downscaling to the desired export resolution. This is especially important for the use of unsharp masks (which are also my most common sharpening tool), because the final resolution of your export will affect what radius you are wanting to use in that unsharp mask. I don't have any fixed settings for the unsharp mask as it really depends on the type of footage it is, the resolution it's being exported at and the lenses plus filters it was shot with.

Also - I checked that you can batch select R3D's and change the debayer detail on all of them at once and it seems that you can. I also checked whether it actually makes a difference in CS6 and from my own testing, I can't find any difference in sharpness or detail at all.

 

[jimhare]

Hi Michael. I've used RED since the beginning in RCX and FCP and can definitely state that any issues you're having with Premiere are user error or system based.

Premiere displays a glorious image so keep working at it, you'll crack it.