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blackmagic pro lenses vs red epic cheap lenses

J

jorge krausch

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If one could afford either to keep his red epic but use lower end lenses (canon non-L)
Or a blackmagic 4k and afford the flag-ship L canon lenses.. in the final footage which would benefit most?
(Keeping grading in consideration)

Naturally assuming one shoots in 4k on both.. (plus I shoot 8:1) in my red because of redmag costs..
 
(I shot yesterday on my red epic with a canon 17-55 cheap plastic lens that came with my t2i.. prob worth $30. But footage looked amazing.. with just one light...
 
You are the only one whom can answer that question since the bmcc 4k does not exist. The Red EPic is a 5k sensor, the L series lenses may not adequately resolve the resolution if you are screening at 4k, but if you are scale down to 1k HD, the difference between an L series lens and an Arri Master-prime will be aesthetic.
 
If you get 10 L series of the same model lenses they will all be different, perhaps subtly but there will be differences. Some manufactures tolerances are tighter than others too. Its very difficult to generalise. Id agree the lens make the image though but your also need a camera to exploit the best from a lens.
 
shashbugu said:
You are the only one whom can answer that question since the bmcc 4k does not exist. The Red EPic is a 5k sensor, the L series lenses may not adequately resolve the resolution if you are screening at 4k, but if you are scale down to 1k HD, the difference between an L series lens and an Arri Master-prime will be aesthetic.
Click to expand...

L-series lenses are designed for shooting 20+ megapixel stills, substantially higher resolution than even an Epic Dragon. The compromises you will make shooting on a still lens over something like a Master-prime will be more apparent in poor focus pulls, lousy flares, and breathing - as opposed to sharpness.
 
jorge krausch said:
(I shot yesterday on my red epic with a canon 17-55 cheap plastic lens that came with my t2i.. prob worth $30. But footage looked amazing.. with just one light...
Click to expand...

Sorry, don't mean to sound sanctimonious, but if that is the standard stock kit lens they sell, that is one of the worst lenses I have ever used.

Now I am strangely curious to try it out though...
 
Ill post a framegrab.. I think it looks alright.. after all it was designed for all the megapixels the t2i can produce on a photo..
But I think the lens is becoming more and more the deciding factor now that camera sensors are getting close to human-eye perfect..
It certainly was with film.. and 4k is almost as good.. but im curious if the blackmagic 4k with L lenses will look better to the human-eye.

True about the stock lens.. its all I have at the moment. Epic was the bank killer.. so itll take a while before I can get decent lenses for it.
Hence my question, I could get great lenses right now if I sold it and got the blackmagic.. but im curious if I would regret it in post..
Redcode is so amazing.
 
Sounds like a Scarlet is perfect for you

Trust me, Epic is great, but Scarlet gets you the Redcode and money for lenses

Best
Michael
 
DL Fitch said:
L-series lenses are designed for shooting 20+ megapixel stills, substantially higher resolution than even an Epic Dragon. The compromises you will make shooting on a still lens over something like a Master-prime will be more apparent in poor focus pulls, lousy flares, and breathing - as opposed to sharpness.
Click to expand...

Thats quite true. Lenses are very good these days, most will out resolve the sensor.
 
Until the 4K cinema camera from Black Magic is actually available...its all vapor ware...stores don't even have the 2.5k model available usually...
 
In my opinion it comes down to the tools you'll want as a cinematographer. I'd personally rather have more options for creativity than sharper lenses.

If you only plan to use the Epic for only 4k shooting at 8:1 compression, no 4k over cranking or under cranking, HDR, 5k, HFR then it might not be the right camera. I'd go scarlet. But if I wanted to strip that down even more and only have a fps from 24 to 30 and only 12 stops of DR, go Black Magic. Plus as you said, keep grading in mind, 13+ stops is better than 12. Or you can even go pocket camera and do 1080 Raw with 13 stops.
 
Anyone claiming that L-series lenses can't adequately resolve a 5K image is just being silly. They can resolve VASTLY greater resolution than we're ever likely to see in any RED camera introduced over the next ten years.

And, for what it is worth, "breathing" is perhaps the most overblown non-issue in lenses. The L-series lenses of today breathe less than the "star film" lenses of yesterday. What's more, in half of the cases where a lens breathes, the super subtle zoom is actually a plus rather than a minus.

The issues are primarily mechanical and build-quality only. You can shoot spectacular images using old Nikon AIS lenses, new Canon L-series lenses, and brand new Cooke and Angenieux lenses. The choice is yours.

It's just great to have all these choices, isn't it?

Stephen
 
So if you had two screens side by side, one with 12 stops DR camera and the other with 13+ stops.. the differences would be enough to hold onto the Epic?
*Scarlets use Redmags too.. so id still be shooting at 8:1 for a while.. but yes id get more lenses.. do the scarlet and epic have 100% the same image quality at low light at 25fps?
 
Stephen is right. Take a look at the Rokinon thread under lens tests. Those folks seem happy. You may think you will only ever shoot 23.98 fps but I would suggest that once you have 300+ fps at your disposal you might use it more often than you thought.

For example:
1) If you think you might need slow mo but are not sure shoot 48fps at 1/48 and you can decide in post.
2) If you want great production stills rate the camera at 400ISO and shoot +one/two stops of HDR and pull them from the x track.
3) If you want smoothed out hand held shots shoot at 48fps (with the right type of subject (ie slider shots, jib shots) you can't tell that it's been slowed down).

This is all on top of the traditional reasons for overcranking.

My 2cents.
 
im one of the very rare few who kinda finds slow motion corny.. i still remember watching Desperado with my family and the slow mos made us laugh so much.. we left commenting how "this was a great action movie spoof" just to learn the next day from friends that it was actually meant to be a serious film.
 
but i can see how having the slow motion option open in post for emergencies to be very handy..
 
shashbugu said:
You are the only one whom can answer that question since the bmcc 4k does not exist. The Red EPic is a 5k sensor, the L series lenses may not adequately resolve the resolution if you are screening at 4k, but if you are scale down to 1k HD, the difference between an L series lens and an Arri Master-prime will be aesthetic.
Click to expand...
Actually, yes, the BlackMagic Production Camera (4k) was announced at NAB. Supposed to be shipping later this month...
 
I think they meant that the BM 4K camera doesn't exist only because it is currently unavailable for mere mortals.

Stephen
 
Max L. said:
Actually, yes, the BlackMagic Production Camera (4k) was announced at NAB. Supposed to be shipping later this month...
Click to expand...

Yes...this event in burbank on July 25 may be it's premiere..as B&H lists same day for availability.
Seems like the raw Canon 5D III has stolen some of this camera's thunder...it will all come down to the images in the end.

http://invite.blackmagicdesign.com/event2013/

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...c_design_blackmagic_production_camera_4k.html
 
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